18 mo - misbehaves and goes to bed without supper

[seastar]

Hi everyone.

I could use some advice 

My 18 mo DD is a touchy/ spirited child. She's at day care the intire day and I pick her up at 5 or 6 pm. When she's very tired, she behaves so badly at table that I just remove her plate and she goes to sleep without eating, witch means I have to give a dream feed and another bottle in the middle of the night.
She's doing the 2 - 1 nap transition at day care and only sleeps from 1 to 3 pm.  She is also making the transition from her class (baby/ toddlers) to the toddlers class (18 mo to 3 year-old). I know she's tired because of that, and I try to get her home quickly and have quiet playtime with her.

I give her bath at 7pm and dinner at 8pm.At table, she spits the food, turns her plate up side down, spills water at the table, etc. No use saying calmly "do not do that" or ignore. I know she likes to eat on her own, so I give her plenty of space. She refuses my "spoons" and only eats want she can pick up with her spoon.

What to I do? Sometimes I loose my temper and my voice comes out a little louder... And I tell her that if she repeats...(that behaviour) I wont read her book at bedtime. She understands and makes truces for 2 minutes... and that she starts all over again.

Thanks...!

[anna*]

8pm is very late for her to be having dinner, what is her daily routine? What is bedtime and wake up time? I was wondering if you could give her her dinner before her bath - as soon as you can once you get home. That way, she will be less tired and more likely to eat. My LO is a bit older but definitely still eats better when he is not so tired. Also, refusing to be fed from your spoon is very common and normal and expected at this age. Can you teach her how to use a little fork?

With throwing food, at this age I wouldn't use a 'deferred' punishment, I would just say, no we don't throw food. You can put it in your mouth, or you can give it to mummy if you are finished. If she throws it again, mealtime is over.

Finally, I wouldn't give her a dreamfeed. It's just setting up another habit to break, you might be surprised that she can sleep all night. I always worry that my LO will wake up hungry, but their appetite drops significantly when they are toddlers and even if he has NOTHING for dinner he still usually sleeps through. He has half a cup of milk before bed, if he has had no dinner I may give him a little extra milk in his cup.

[deb]

Anna is spot on. 8PM is a late dinner, especially depending on when she wakes, and at 18 months she shouldn't be needing a feed in the night, especially not a DF.

Have to run, I'll try to remember to get back later, but now my spot is marked.

[15milner]

What time does you little one go to sleep and what time is wake up in the morning?

sounds like a lot of it is to do with being really overtired.  If sleep is 1-3 then dinner is 5hours after waking up.  My 2.5yr old has a sleep 1.30-3 and has now been asleep for 30 mins (it's now 8.30pm), he'll wake around 6.30/7am.

Andrew is at nursery all day on the days i work and gets collected around 5.30.  he's had some sort of snack/ high-tea at 3.30 at nursery, so I give him a light snack - toast / banana / yoghurt as soon as we get in at 5.30/6.  By feeding tea at this time gives a longer time between the end of tea and getting into bed etc so he doesn't go to sleep on a full tummy either.  We've been doing this for the past year and a bit and the routine hasn't changed. 

i agree with all the advice that anna has suggested.

Alex

[Mimi 2]

Just wanted to throw in my vote with anna.  Could you ask the DCP to give her dinner or a big snack just prior to you picking her up?  Or even considering giving her dinner as soon as you get into the house?

I know that when I had dd with my mom when I went back to work, dd had dinner at 4/4:30 pm and at 6 pm I would pick her up.  When we arrived home (6:30/6:45pm) dd would get a snack and milk then off for a bath, stories and bed.  It didn't leave much time for one-to-one play but it was a routine that works best for dd.

[Seona1973]

I would definitely give dinner as soon as you get home and then have a very quick bath (if she really needs one every night) and aim for bed as soon as possible - what time does she get up in the morning?  At that age ds was in bed for 7.30pm and awake any time from 6.30am.

[Texomamama]

Agree with all the PP's.  Everyone else has offered suggestions that, when put together, seem to offer the perfect solution.  Good luck:)

[seastar]

Thanks everyone!

This is her routine:

07:30/8:00 - wakes up
8:30 - breakfast
9:00 - we leave to daycare
9:30 - 11:30 - playtime at her class and the toddler's class
11:30/ 12:00 - lunch at day care
1:00 - 3:00 - nap
3:30 - tea
3:30 - 5:30 - playtime
5:30 - eats fruit puree and cookies
5:30/ 6:00 - I pick her up
then you know the rest...

My DD goes to bed around 8:30/ 9:00 pm - I know it seems late... She wakes up at 7:30/ 8:00. Sometimes she wakes up at 9:00 (mostly at weekeds .

I am concerned about her weight because she was always "petite", at the bottom of the charts.

Regarding Anna's post about milk at bedtime, when she refuses dinner she won't have a bottle before bed either. But if she wakes up in the middle of the night hungry, I feed her...

You suggested giving her dinner and then the bath... isn't' this bad for her? Full tummy and then water... 

I guess I'm keeping her awake so I can have playtime with her, visit grandma, walk in the park, wait till dad arrives, etc... When I visit my mom/ my nephew at the end of the day is when things go really bad.

You know... I'm writing this post and I'm realising she's overtired and that I'm doing what I wished I could do instead of what's best for her...
 

It's just that she's at daycare all day and want her to get some fresh air and go other places... and our own schedule (me and DH) work around this routine. Specially at weekends, when we go to birthday parties, visit relatives, etc.

But I value your suggestions and opinions, so, please continue to post!

Thanks
x

[deb]

It's hard when you can't spend the quality time b/c or work and other constraints.  But you're realizing that even WITH the playtime that you're doing, it's not working for her, which is a good start. I'd suggest that even with LESS time, it would be higher quality time and more enjoyable for all if you were to have an earlier and more relaxed dinner when she's in a better frame of mind for it. Bathtime here was usually not long after dinner/supper, as often as not because toddlers aren't the neatest eaters anyway and they'd NEED a bath! LOL It's not a problem as long as you keep the activity level down, same as you would with any exertion right after a meal.

By all means enjoy the playtime you can, looks like you get some before daycare too, but if she's tired and cranky, it's just not going to go well. Everyone is happier when they have enough rest, plus she'll eat better when she's awake and you'll all sleep better at night too!

[anna*]

07:30/8:00 - wakes up
8:30 - breakfast
9:00 - we leave to daycare
9:30 - 11:30 - playtime at her class and the toddler's class
11:30/ 12:00 - lunch at day care
1:00 - 3:00 - nap
3:30 - tea
3:30 - 5:30 - playtime
5:30 - eats fruit puree and cookies
5:30/ 6:00 - I pick her up
then you know the rest...

My DD goes to bed around 8:30/ 9:00 pm - I know it seems late... She wakes up at 7:30/ 8:00. Sometimes she wakes up at 9:00 (mostly at weekeds .

It's a really long day for her, 7.30am - 9pm, I would try to have her asleep for 8pm. The thing about water after a meal, I read, is just a myth. Also I think it really only relates to swimming - I think you wouldn't want to swim after a heavy meal, but a bath after dinner is just fine. And a nice warm bath can be a fun relaxing end to the day. Maybe if there is a little gap between dinner and bed, she would take a small cup of milk as part of her wind-down, even if she didn't eat much dinner. I would definitely avoid night feedings at this age, they remember so well and it is so fast for bad habits to stick!!

I know what you mean abuot the routine you want. I wish I had more time with my LO on the days I work, but agree with Deb that it's better that we all enjoy the shorter amount of time than dealing with a tired, crabby toddler and a frustrated mama.