Great naps yesterday but up for 2 hrs in the middle of the night

[Mommy_to_a_Monkey]

I am not sure what is going on but this sucks BIG TIME!  I am trying to keep to the 4-hr EASY routine with my 7.5month old but it is not working and I am keeping everything consistent.  We follow at 6-6 day (due to time change) but his naps are still all over the place and he is still NW.  The EW seems to have disappeared though which is nice.
Sunday night I decided to stop night feeds and only BF on one side for 3 days and then gradually wean this way.  By the second night he fussed for a bit at the normal NW for food but he managed to put himself back to sleep after about 25min.  He eats well and has 4 BF per day and 3 meals of solids.  I will post our routine below.
Yesterday I really felt like we were making great progress because he had a morning nap of 1hr 20min and then an afternoon nap of 2hrs 15min!  I was in shock!
However last night we had multiple NW: 7:30pm, 9:30pm and then at midnight and it then took me over 2hrs to get him back to sleep (gave teething meds too thinking that was why) only for him to wake up an hr later .  Just as I was drifting off to sleep of course.  So at 3am I decided to feed him because I figured it was likely hunger (one side only) and he then slept until 6am.  Why would he wake up so frequently after such great sleep during the day??  Do I need to add in another BF during the day maybe?  Or is solids too close to bedtime and he is not getting enough breast milk before bed?  He eats quite a bit of solids at dinnertime as well which is why I am thinking it is interfering a bit....I don't know.

Here is our yesterday EASY:
(his awake times seem to be all over the map and yesterday I thought we had it figured out at 2.5hrs)

E - 6:05am - BF
E - 7am - solids
S - 8:20am - 9:35am
E - 10am - BF
E - 11:15am - solids
S - 12:07pm - 2:23pm
E - 2:30pm - BF
E - 4pm - solids - do you think maybe this was too late?
S - 5:35pm - he was showing tired signs at 4:45pm and I was thinking maybe a CN but decided instead to push bedtime a little bit - was this the right thing to do?  Could he have different awake times everyday?  I stopped watching the clock actually this past week and have been going by his cues because he has a whine he does when he is tired which is why I thought it worked yesterday.  He may have different awake times each day or even in the same day???....so confusing!

This morning I followed his cues and after he woke at 6am, BF right away, solids at 7am, he was whining for bed at 8:15am so we had a quick diaper change, story, and a cuddle and he was off to sleep by 8:30am....only to wake up 30min later - ARGHH!  And he was pretty easy to get to sleep too.  How could he be OT?!  Could 30min also be UT?  

I don't know what to do and REALLY want this routine to work but I don't know what else I could be doing or not doing.  I tried to sh/pat and PU/PD for about 45min but it didn't work in extending his nap.  I really don't like the inconsistent naps, its driving me bonkers......

[~Sara~]

Hi hon!  I'm sorry you're having such a tough time!  *hugs*  Let's see if we can figure out what's going on with your little man.

Just something that jumps out at me initially is that you might want to try and push those A times a bit.  Most LOs his age are averaging 3-4 hour A times (http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652).

I don't think solids are giving you a hard time, really.  But I don't have much experience there, so hopefully some other moms will chime in with their perspective!

What I think is happening is that his A times are "too small" for him and that's leading to one of two scenarios:

1) he's starting to compensate for that awake time at night.  In that case, lengthening his A times will get him properly tired for his naps AND bedtime. 

What is he acting like when he wakes at night?  Have the NWs been happening only since you started cutting out night feeds?

2) (the scenario I'm leaning more toward) He starts of the day UT, takes an UT nap; but by the end of the day is very OT.  That OT presents itself in night sleep with frequent wakings and early wakings.  He might be wanting to BF because that's how he knows how to comfort himself at night.  Again, once you lengthen that A time, the naps will get better and the night sleep will get better, too.

Could he have different awake times everyday?

It's possible, but if all is going according "to plan," there shouldn't be a DRASTIC variation.  So, it might be 5:55, 6:10, 6:02...that kind of thing; but not an hour difference.

I tried to sh/pat and PU/PD for about 45min but it didn't work in extending his nap.

I've heard from other moms, plus have tried unsuccessfully myself: UT naps are nearly impossible to extend.  The best plan of action is to get them up after 40 minutes of trying (or less if you know that UT was the culprit of the short nap), let them have some low-key A time, feed around the next time, and put them down for their next nap a bit earlier.

Let's see what some other mommies have to say, too (especially about solids/BF weaning at night).

Hang in there!  We're here to help

[Mommy_to_a_Monkey]

Ok you might be right, however I kept him up a bit longer this morning even though he clearly wanted to go to sleep (approx 2.75hrs-3hrs A time) and he slept for an hour.  Much better but I have been reading on here that it still means OT???  Also, he was awake this morning at about 5:30am (I think) and was hungry and wanted to start the day so we did.  So now the whole day is shifted back.  However, should I still keep to a 4hr eating schedule if he sleeps through a feed or should I start pushing him longer?  Because technically if he is up for 3-4hrs it crosses into a feed.  Last night he went to sleep at around 6:30 and was definitely not OT when he went down.  He woke up briefly at 9:30pm but he was able to put himself back to sleep....however he was awake again at 10:30pm and wouldn't go back to sleep so I fed him and he literally took a quick feed (1 min) on both sides (almost like he was just thirsty?)  He woke up again at 1am and I was so tired I didn't even hear him and he screamed for about an hr....he was definitely hungry at that point and was so worked up...I felt absolutely HORRIBLE!  I really need to start going to bed when he does and napping too.  So I fed him and then he went right back to sleep until 5:30am.  I am assuming he is probably not ready to night wean just yet.
Thanks for helping me with this BTW.  I really appreciate it and really want this to work for both of us.

[~Sara~]

however I kept him up a bit longer this morning even though he clearly wanted to go to sleep (approx 2.75hrs-3hrs A time)

Yes, he will be sleepy still at the new A time, but that's only because he's not used to it being stretched out yet.  I would keep him on 3 hours of A time for that first A, then after a couple of days, stretch out the subsequent ones.  To make it easier on him, gently extend those A times with some low-key activities like going on a walk, rocking, reading a book, singing...stuff that won't overstimulate him but won't bore him into sleep either

Much better but I have been reading on here that it still means OT???

Hmmm, I would tend to think it was UT, but it really just depends.  How was he acting when he woke up early??  Really fussy and trying to resettle back to sleep??  Then that would normally be OT.  If he woke up maybe only slightly fussy, or smiling, cooing or babbling, then UT.

However, should I still keep to a 4hr eating schedule if he sleeps through a feed or should I start pushing him longer?  Because technically if he is up for 3-4hrs it crosses into a feed.

Yes, it will now that he's older.  His routine won't be EASEAS.  It will look more like EASAEAS...because he's consolidating his daytime sleep into 2 naps (maybe 2 + a catnap).

Have you looked through the sample routines for 6-12 month olds, to see how other moms' days look like?  It will really give you a good idea about what other babies your LO's age are doing.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=10386.0

Also, he was awake this morning at about 5:30am (I think) and was hungry and wanted to start the day so we did.  So now the whole day is shifted back.

Try getting him on a more age-appropriate routine and I think the NWs and EWs should go away.  If not, and you know that his day sleep is great and he's not waking due to OT, then you can try wake to sleep to get rid of the EW or gradually push back his bedtime so that he wakes up later, too.

I'm not sure about this, but by now, if he's eating well during the day, he should be able to go through the night without a feed.  I'm hesitant to say for sure, just because I don't bf anymore; but we don't feed after the DF and we're on formula.

It's very possible that he was thirsty, or he needed to eat for the comfort after crying...I wish I had more insight to offer about that

How have the past couple of days gone?

[~Sara~]

Just wanted to check in on you and see how things have been

[Mommy_to_a_Monkey]

Well we are still not getting anywhere unfortunately.  His eating and sleeping is still all over the map and frankly I think I am giving up.  I might try the whole set nap times.  He had a great day Monday with 2 naps of 1.5hrs each so I thought GREAT!  I figured the night would be awesome too but nope he still woke up three times!  He has a usual NW at 10:30pm which I might try W2S tonight since I am still up at this point anyways.  However, sometimes I am able to just put a hand on him and he goes right back to sleep and other times he is up for about an hr freaking out like he is starving!  Yesterday was a bad nap day because he had EW at 5:30am and the whole day was a write off....last night was ok and the hand on the back worked well at the 10:30pm mark but he still woke up at midnight for food but then slept until 5:30am again.  Not sure what to do anymore.  He was able to make it to 3:30am where I fed him on one side only but still woke up at 5:30am.  He used to wake up at 6 or 6:30am.

[~Sara~]

Have you tried playing with his A times to bring them more up to his age?

Gotta jet to head over to the in-laws, but will take another look tomorrow

[Mommy_to_a_Monkey]

Yes we have been fiddling with A times for about a month now and still no luck...the odd good nap here and there but nothing consistent for more than a day.

[~Sara~]

Hmmm, interesting.  I'm sorry that nothing seems to be working.  If you'd like to keep trying to figure this out, let me know   Willing to help until the bitter end

And if you'd like, could you post his routine for either yesterday or today?