7.5M old with several NW

[LinziB]

Please help my LO's NW are getting worse.  She is now waking every couple of hours during the night.

Her naps are good and she has dropped the CN a few weeks ago. Her EASY looks something like this at the moment

7am Wakeup
E 7:15am Bottle
E 8:30 Breakfast
A 7:00 - 10am
S 10:00 - 11:30 (Usually 1.5 - 2hrs)
Y

E 11:30 Bottle (Sometimes falls in middle of nap and go in and feed)
E 12:30 Lunch
A 11:30 - 14:30
S 14:30 - 15:30 (1Hr)
Y

E 15:30 Bottle
E 17:00 Dinner
A 15:30 - 6:30/7:30 (Look for sleep cues)
E 6:30/7:30 Bottle (Before Bed)
Y

We sometimes get early NW from bedtime up until 11ish when she settles for a few hours then in this case we get a NW's around 3am and then beetween 5 & 6am.  Or she settles okay and then wakes between 9 and 10pm or I give DF at 10am then she often wakes at 1am, 3am, 5am and 6am not exactly but around these times.  A couple of weeks ago she was wake at 1:50 exactly and 4:20 exactly so i knew this was out of habit but as you can see the situation is getting progressively worse.  I have never done PU/PD as this works her up more and rather been able to settle in the cot or have fed if its close to morning. If naps have been right in the past Sleeping has been good but she has never STTN since a little baby.  A good night in the past was probably one NW after we had gone to bed and a wakeup at around 6/6:30am.

Please help.

[Jonahs Mom]

I don't have any suggestions since I just came on here to post nearly the exact same thing and my ds is almost the same age as your dd.

for myself, the only thing I can think of for my ds (and maybe your dd is having the same?) is either teething, physical development milestone, or illness.

Hoping someone pops on with some good advice/ideas we can both use!


I do seem to recall my first son having sleep problems at this age too, so hopefully it's just the age?

[Jonahs Mom]

You know, I am just thinking here, but what about trying to cut her morning nap to 1hr15min (wake her up, don't keep her up longer), then 3hr A time, then hopefully 1.5hr pm nap?

I've heard from others that sometimes the morning nap needs to be shortened to rectify these things.

I'm gonna give it a go today. I'll let you know how it goes.

Oh, and fwiw, here is our routine for comparison - we aren't far off! We have a NW around 11/12, then 3ish then about 5am.

E/A 630am-bf
E    730am-solids
S    900am - 1045am *today I will shorten this to 1015am

E/A 1045am-bf
E    1200pm - solids
S    145pm - 300pm

E/A 300pm - bf
E    400pm - solids
E     600pm - bf
then bed about 615pm

[LinziB]

Thx for replies ladies. Sorry went on Holiday for a month! Back now and ready to tackle nightwaking.  NW still an issue ... some days better than others where she might wake 1 or 2 after I put her down but others she's awake every 2 hours or so.

[LinziB]

Jay3: When she wake she usually fusses for a bit and then starts to cry after a bit if I don't go in. Usually manage to settle by rolling her onto her side and tucking her in. Lately have to pick up then put down again and she's settles back to sleep straight away.  When I go in her eyes are sometimes still closed.

[LinziB]

Okay as things stand now - holiday was a bit of a mess but TG LO started drinking morning bottle and then falling back to sleep in our bed until 8 or 9 (9:45am the other day) so that was nice.

Back to routine and currently EASY looks something like this (varies each day as on weekends the house starts waking a bit later so she sometimes wakes later)

Awake 7am
E 7:15 Bottle
E 8:30 Breakfast
A 7am - 10am (3hrs)
S 10am - 11:30am (Can be up to 2.5hrs)

E 12:00 Bottle
E 13:00 Lunch
A 11:30 - 2:30/3:00
S 2:30 - 3:45/4:00

E 4:00 Bottle
E 5:30 Dinner
A 3:45 - 7ish (use sleep cues somewhere between 3 and 4hrs A time)
S 7ish

[LinziB]

Thx. 3hr A time for about 2 months now but its not exact she is pretty easy to read because I spend alot of time with her, think thats why she naps so well.  She has just cut 4 teeth in the last month or so and now has 7 but that looks like it for now.  Maybe some Seperation Anxiety.  Also maybe some AP because we had her in our room while on holiday and because staying with other family tended to jump up and get her and give her a couple of sips (BF) so she wouldn't cry and wake everyone.  But it doesn't seem to be too much of a habit because if I just PU/PD she goes back to sleep.  Thats why i'm think SA .. she's maybe just looking for me and when she knows I'm still around she's happy to settle herself again?

[LinziB]

Yes if I PU/PD I usually stand there to make sure she's properly asleep (deep breathing), sometimes hold my hand on her if she is restless. If I BF then I just tuck her in and walk out she settles herself.

Yesterday she had a 1.5hr nap in the morning and then only 30min in afternoon (was at SteMIL and she put her down when she was OT)  which meant her last nap ended at 3.30pm so I estimated a 6:30pm bedtime (or earlier as nap was very short). She started to fuss at 6ish but as we were on our way out I kept her up till we left aroung 6.30pm and she fell asleep in the car. Moved her to the bed when we got to my sisters and she continued to sleep for about an hour then woke as she hadn't had her evening bottle. I had gone to Parent/teachers meeting so DH gave bottle and resettled (apparently took a while but he got her down eventually) I was back by 8 and we didn't hear her again until after 10pm as we were leaving so I just picked her up and popped her in the car. She was awake when we got home so I made her a bottle and put her in the cot with it (I try never to do this) went in 10min later and she had drank most of the bottle and was fast asleep.

She had NW at 2:30am so I BF as its very very hot here at the moment and then she woke again after 5am once again BF (thinking I shouldn't have fed here). Was awake at 6 so moved her to our bed and BF and she fell asleep in our bed till around 7am. Think I mentioned somewhere before this that sometimes she fall back to sleep after 6am BF until 8 or 9am if its weekends.

GW?

[LinziB]

Also wanted to add up at 7am this morning and had bottle and the breakfast at 8am and now at 9:00 showed lost of tired cues, definately tired as not happy to do anything (change environment - even took her outside) so put her down.

1st Morning nap is usually very easy to put her down ... I went into her room now wrapped her up and gave her her lovey (doesnt' have a dummy) and then put her in her cot. Started to close her eyes immediately and within 5min I walked out the room as she was almost asleep.  Will still have to see how long she naps for though as I usually would have tried to push her to 10.

[LinziB]

Have had to terrible nights.  Sunday she had a long nap in morning (2hrs) and then 1.5hrs in afternoon, woke at 4:45pm.  Estimated Bedtime around 7:45.  Tried to put her down at 7:15 when she was fusshing but just drank bottle and was wide awake so got her up and tried again at 7:45pm.  It took over an hour with lots of fusshing until I eventually got her down. She woke once after that and then at 4am was awake and didn't really settle again for the rest of the night, was fussing in her sleep - even moved her to our bed and she still didn't settle.

Yesterday she had 1.5hr nap in the morning then a 45min nap in the afternoon and a 30min catnap on our way home from my moms. I put her to bed at around 7pm and once again it took an hour with lots of fighting to get her down.  She then woke at 1am, 3am and 5am. Heard her just before 6am but she went back to sleep on her own and was awake at 6:45am this morning.

I don't like the CN as its more difficult to get the right time to put her down for the night after a 20 or 3min nap so I try avoid them.

[LinziB]

Wakeup 7am (Sometimes wakes at 6:30 or 6 then everything shifts back)
E 7:15 Bottle
E 8:30 Breakfast
A 7:00 - 10:00
S 10:00 - 11:30 (Sometimes 2hrs so awake at 12:00)

E 11:30 Bottle (Sometimes has rest of 7:15 before 10:00 sleep so then then she has this bottle at 2pm)
E 1:00 Lunch
A 11:30 - 2:30 (here I go on sleep cues)
S 2:30 - 3:30 (sometimes 1.5hrs so awake at 4:00)

E 5:00 Dinner
A 3:30 - 6:30/7pm
E 6:30/7pm Bottle
S 7pm aprox.

My  Nighttime routine is usually roughly the same.

Bath at 6pm - 6:30
Half an hour of quite play and family time (Dad comes home)
Make Bottle together
Go into room and close door, draw curtains.
Get blanket and Lovey from cot and half swaddle.
Sit in rocking chair and has bottle.
When bottle finished or she pushes away from mouth I stand up straight away and put her into cot (eyes are usually closed)
Usually goes curls up on her side with Lovey and goes straight to sleep, I stand with my hand on her while she settles herself.
Last 2 nights as soon as I put her into her cot she starts to fuss and wakes up totally and then takes an hour of fighting to get her to sleep (including AP)

[LinziB]

Before for her first morning nap I could half swaddle her and put her into cot awake and walk out of the room and she would fall asleep on her own. 2nd Nap I usually had to pat her or hold my hand on her for her to fall asleep. Now I have to pat or hold hand on her for all naps and sometimes have to pick up and then put down again several times before I can even do that.

She can settle herself during naps as I sometimes hear her making noises after a 45min or 1hr nap and then she goes back to sleep again same as sometimes during the night but others I have to go and and BF or pick up and put down then pat (more like a jiggle as patting works her up). She struggled with staying in calm alert state as a tiny baby and I think she was maybe touchy. As a tiny Baby she would best fall asleep just being held still without any patting or movement etc. I started BW at 4.5m when I started having several NW, before 4.5m she only woke for feeds from newborn and then had progressed to sleeping from 7pm till 4am by 4.5m.

[LinziB]

Read through Touchy baby profile and she's definatley not touchy. She's probably more typical of an Angel baby which definately means I'm doing some AP and its got nothing to do with her why she's not STTN.

I sat down yesterday and did some serious thinking about what went wrong from 4 months onwards up until now and if I think about it I think I developed a feed to sleep association from day 1. Because she was an angel baby she only woke every 4hrs from birth during the night - so I fed and then put her back down and this progressed as it should till she was doing a good stretch from 7pm till 4am without waking and then one day (while we were away she woke up) so I fed her and then she started waking more and more often and also woke a short while after I put her down in the evening so put her down with a bottle in her mouth obviously making the feed to sleep association worse.  Even now I'm pretty lazy and tend to just BF if she wakes in the night without even trying anything else so thats definately one of the problems. The only thing is that I only BF at night so if I stop doing that then I won't BF anymore and I'm worried about LO getting sick alot from DD1 as she has never been sick before and I'm sure its because I have been BF.

I started BW with DF at around 5.5m and got daytime routine sorted out and taught her to got to sleep alone (took 2 naps till I could put her down awake and she would go to sleep unassisted) and NW were automatically alot better (only 1 or 2). I think picked up a nap problem around 6.5 months where naps were getting alot shorter again and pm nap was rubbish but got help with that on here and naps are brilliant again now and she started STTN a couple of nights a week. 

And then at 7.5m we went on holiday and because we weren't getting up early I found I could feed her in our bed at 6/7ish and she would go back to sleep till 8 or 9 (once 10) so we could sleep late ... this totally messed up her routine and NW was back ... we then went on holiday for 2 weeks where we share a room with her and were staying with family and so everytime she woke I jumped up and fed her to avoid waking the rest of the house obviously back to the feed to sleep association ...

... and here we are now ... we are back to our normal routine (having to get up at 6am) and although she is still doing great am and pm nap her night sleep is terrible again

Sorry for essay just thought if I wrote it down I might be able to pick out all the problems with help from everyone else.

[LinziB]

Yesterday afternoon I started once again breaking the feed to sleep association by putting her down totally awake in cot for pm nap. It took 30min for her to settle so she went down at 3:45pm so she only woke at 5:15. I estimated bedtime to be at 8:15pm but got it wrong and she was totally happy till around then so took her to room and gave her bottle. Sat her up when she was falling asleep drinking and tried to get her to drink most of the bottle (she is a terrible drinker).  I then put her into her cot wide awake and it took a further 40min or so after putting her into her cot for her to settle herself. She first pulled herself up so I did Putdown a few time and then did a couple of PU/PD when she was lying crying in the cot and then she looked like she was settling but fussed half awake/half asleep for for another 30min till she finally managed to fall asleep ... and then heard her 10min later but she was making deep vibrating noises which meant she was putting herself to sleep so didn't hear her again.

DH got home at 12 and she woke as he came in (think he woke her) so he went in and settled her and then she only woke once during the night (my resolve didn't hold and I BF) she had 2 sips and back to sleep. Woke at 6am and brought her to our bed ... had another 2 or 3 sips BF and  back to sleep till us getting up around 6:15 woke her.

Put her down at 9:00 for her first nap as she woke early. Half Swaddled and straight into cot and it took about 7min for her to fall asleep with me doing 3 or 4 sh-pat/jiggle and then just holding hand on her (she still calms with the sh-noise weirdly).

[LinziB]

Thx. I have got a fan on in her room as its about 30 degrees here at the moment so its on all day, it also drows out the noise of my very noisy DH and DD1 when she is trying to nap and sleep.

Half swaddle I mean I swaddle one arm in and the other one out.  She doesn't stand up as often as get up onto all fours.

This afternoon it took about 20min. Today was actually a good day with regards to routine even though she was up early. Because I didn't really BF during the night she drank a full 6oz this morning and BF and then a full 6oz at 11 and then a full 6oz at 3 (as it should be) she usually this is close to 3oz at each feed. 

Todays EASY went something like this:

Awake 6:15
E 6:30 BF 6oz bottle
E 8:30 Breakfast
A 6:15 - 8:50 (2hr30) down by 9ish - 7min to fall asleep
S 9:00 - 10:15 (1hr15)

E 11:15 Bottle
E 1:00 Lunch
A 10:15 - 1:30 (3h15) down by 1:50 - 20min to fall asleep
S 1:50 - 3:20

E 3:30 Bottle
E 5:30 Dinner
A 3:20 - 6:30 (3hrs) down by 7:20 - 10min bottle and then 40min to fall asleep (big fight) lots of PD and then lots of fusshing till she eventually settled herself!

Do you think that maybe the A time before bed is too short?

I know that at the am nap if I extend A time towards 3 or even 3.5hrs I get a 2hr or longer nap.  pm nap I usually go on sleep cues (somewhere between 3 and 4hrs A time).

Maybe I should try the 2, 3, 4 ... I read about that somewhere. 2hrs first thing in morning then nap then 3hrs between naps then 4 hours before bedtime.  What do you think? Though naps are pretty good at the moment and I don't really want to mess them up ... morning naps is always 1hr plus no matter when I put her down.