Long NWs

[beckygatt]

My 9 month old DD has never been a great sleeper. Lately, most nights, she'll wake up at some point between 2am and 6am and remain awake for an hour or more tossing and turning and fussing. At this point she'll usually be in bed with me. (Am planning on starting sleep training in a couple of weeks after coming back from holiday). When she wakes up for a long time I just don't know what to do. I get so frustrated and angry cos I don't know why she does it! I end up snapping at her which I know is bad and feel really guilty for after. How on earth can I break this habit, its making me so tired! It doesn't seem to follow any pattern; whether she's napped well or not doesn't seem to make a difference. Any ideas?

[squeakersmum]

No advice I'm afraid just wanted to send (((((Hugs))))).

We went through that too - DS would be up from anywhere from an hour to two hours every night!...

...But...it did get better.  We probably battled with it for around 2 weeks the first time it happened.  We have had a couple more 'episodes'.  I have found though that with little tweaks to his day the NW stopped (the latest has been the 2-1 which seems to have gone fairly smoothly!).

Perhaps she needs to extend A time??

Steph XXX

[Jamers]

Just wanted to send you lots of hugs.  I know how your feeling.  I have just posted on here as I'm starting to get frustrated as my 10 month old is not sleeping.  My first son didn't sleep until he was 3.  It's so hard when you and your baby are not getting your rest as it effects your whole day.  I really hope you get some sleep soon.

Jamie x

[Tweakster]

Hi there, as Steph suggests it could be A time related, it could be too much day sleep, it could be teething, milestones, development.  Could you post your routine, we can take a look.

[beckygatt]

OK here is the general routine. It does vary though. Some days she'll only have 2 half hour naps and then occasionally (like yesterday) she'll have 2 1.5hr naps(very rare for them to be this long - usually 30-45mins).
 
7am wake up
E - 7.30 (cereal)
E - 9.15 BF
S - 9.30 (sometimes later than this)
A - 10.15
E - 12 meat/veg/pasta
E - 1.30 BF
S - 2pm
A - 3pm
E - 4pm yoghurt
E - 6pm meat/veg/pasta
A - 6.30 bath
E - 7-7.30pm BF
S - 7-8 depending on 2nd nap and activity

Then she'll wake in the night occasionally for paci and at some point in the early hours will remain awake as I said above. Like I said times and length of naps really do vary quite a bit but this doesn't seem to make her sleep any better or worse at night.

Thanks!!

[beckygatt]

I've just had an awful night! Its 6.30am now and I've given up on any more sleep.

7.30pm put her to bed
8.30pm cried - replaced paci
10.30pm cried - again paci
1.30am woke up - awake for 2 hrs!!!
3.30 slept
6.30 woke up and wouldn't sleep again.

I don't understand. How is she not tired?! Yesterday she had a nap from 10.15-10.45 and one from 12.15-1.30. Which implies she was OT. On the other hand the day before when she rested 3hrs in total she still woke up at night. I feel like a zombie. What can I do when she does this? I can't function well during the day and I don't have time to rest during the day at the moment. Its making me feel angry and resentful towards her which I hate :-(

[beckygatt]

Also - I try to keep her mealtimes at the same times each day. When she wakes up early should I give her breakfast earlier or make her wait till the usual time?

[squeakersmum]

It does sound like she is OT - she's not teething or anything?

I understand when you say it makes you feed resentful - we know it's not their fault, but everything seems so much worse when we're sleep deprived doesn't it!!

I always try to give DS his morning bottle at the same time each day pretty much regardless of wake up - if it's an early one then (rightly or wrongly) we bring him into our room, turn the light on low and keep him (or try) quiet and calm until our usual wake up.  It helps me to know what I'm doing!  But I know that many others would move meal times accordingly - I know that doesn't help but I guess I'm saying that you know what is right for you.

I know that my LO couldn't handle 4 hour A at 9 months - perhaps pushing that first nap a little later (depending on wake up) as this is her shortest A of the day, would help balance the other A times out?

[beckygatt]

That would make sense. For the first nap she often falls asleep on me after BF and I'm reluctant to wake her again, but maybe I should? What can I do at night? Justb keep her in bed and wait for her to sleep again? DH getting really tired too!!

[Tweakster]

Hi there, a few thoughts:

- the paci is a prop, if she can't replug and is looking for you to do it...have you thought about weaning?
- letting her sleep on you is also a bit of a prop, she's falling asleep after feeding?  Ideally she should be going down into her crib awake at this point and getting to sleep on her own
- at around 9 - 10 mths they are typically having solids before milk, so I would also keep her feed times to meal times...with snacks in between. 
- It's not that she's not tired, she's overtired.  So she can't sleep restfully.  Normally at this age they start to look to drop their day sleep needs, most do it before they are ready.  What you need to decide is what works best for you and for her - long AM/short PM nap or short AM/long PM nap. 
- any signs of teething or other discomfort?  Perhaps some of the solids are disagreeing with her? 

To be honest I think you need to get rid of the props and then work towards improving her naps.  The nights should then get better by default.

[squeakersmum]

I would definitely try keeping her awake through the BF and then allow her a little A time before trying to settle her for a nap.  Or - perhaps swap the BF and breakfast round - so give her a BF at 7.30 and then breakfast an hour or so later.  Then A time and watch for the tired signals.  I would imagine as she is used to falling asleep on you after a feed that she may well be using the feeding as a sleep signal so swapping them around will stop her using it as a prop as PP said.

Then when she wakes after the am nap BF again and then lunch an hour or so later again.  That way she is still getting the same number of BF and 'mummy' time but it's not associated with sleep.

I also agree that the paci is a prop...but...it was for my LO and he still has it (14 months) and to be honest I don't mind - he's always been very 'sucky' and he is now a great sleeper so I don't really want to change it yet!  Around this time (9/10 months) he did learn to find it in his cot and replug himself and if you want to keep it rather than weaning her off it you could always consider putting another one in her cot with her so she is more likely to find one of them.  Also help her to put it in herself; put it in her hand and guide it to her mouth (if she doesn't do this already).

With the NW, I found I had to be really strong (and tired!!) and not bring him into our bed because he would just play and babble and generally keep us all awake!  So as DH had to get up early I would take the NW (and turn the monitor off so DH could sleep!) and do a version of WI/WO with him.  He would eventually go back down.  It was tough but worth it in the end!

It may well also be that as she is feeding before every nap in the day that she is wanting/needing this to go back to sleep at night - so changing the day around so she's feeding when she wakes up rather than to go to sleep should help too.

HTH and more Hugs!

Steph XXX

[beckygatt]

Thanks All4finn and Steph! I think these are all valid points! I think maybe I will try to switch BF and meal and see how that goes. I have been trying to teach her to replace paci. She'll do it while awake no problem but when she wakes up at night she doesn't really try! She just cries. Will keep trying. I'm not sure if she might be teething. She doesn't have any teeth yet but not showing any signs of them coming either! The reason I'm waiting to do sleep training is that I'm going abroad to visit my sister and she'll have to sleep next to me there, so I don't want to confuse her. I thought I'd give it a proper go  once I get back!