New here, a few sleep questions

[caila]

Hi, I'm new here, am thrilled to find this forum, have been following EASY with my baby since about 6 weeks old with reasonable success ....now that he is 13 weeks old I have a few sleep questions I would really appreciate your opinion on 
Hopefully I am posting in the right place

My LO is probably at the transition stage between 3-4 hour EASY at the moment which to be honest I am playing by ear as the transition plan in the Baby Whisperer book looks quite complicated to try to follow.......
I DF at 10/10.30pm but LO still wakes at 2/2.30am and if I feed him, he takes a full feed....I've tried everything to tank him up during the day to no avail.  He also then typically wakes between 4 and 5.30am...I have been trying to stretch him out (with a dummy) and not feed him until 6am.  After a 6/6.30am feed I find it is too late to put him back to bed.....my questions are;

- should I be trying to stretch his 2am & 4-5ish feeds out with a dummy to try and encourage him to not wake for them so early?  this means I am awake the whole time until I eventually feed him, would probably get more sleep if I just fed him and put him back to bed, but don't want to encourage NF...what do you think is best here to encourage STTN?
- We have a 7pm bedtime which I would like to stick to...I would actually like to be starting his day at 7am, but he feeds too close prior to this (5.30/6am) to put him back and get him up again at 7....this kind of throws out the whole 3hrly/4hrly EASY finishing at 7pm, and makes each day quite unpredictable, and am not sure how I can adjust this to have a set 'start' time?  I have thought about making up this hour during the day which would mean he either sleeps an hour longer or is awake an hour longer....he would struggle on the awake time, and am reluctant to sleep him more during the day for fear of robbing his nightime sleep...any thoughts?

Thanks in advance for reading and for your advice!

Caila

[*Jo*]

Hi Caila, just wondering if you are able to put up your routine in EASY format, it makes it easier to work things out seeing it like this, so for exazmple:

wake up 7am
E 7am
A 7-8.30
S 8.30-??? etc etc

thanks!

[caila]

Hi, thanks, a typical day at the moment looks something like this...

Wake up 6am
E/A  6am (often doesn't take feed as has been fed at about 4.30ish!)
S     7.45am
E/A  9.30am
S     11.00am
E/A   1.00pm
S     2.30/3pm
E/A  4pm
S (catnap) 5/5.15pm
E/A  6pm (usually just a short cluster feed, plus bath)
E     7pm
Bedtime 7.30pm
Dreamfeed 10pm
He then typically wakes;
E 1.30am (I feed him),
4am-6am pretty much grizzles/wakes 3 or 4 times/I usually feed him again once

My questions were
-should I be trying to stretch his 2am & 4-5ish feeds out with a dummy to try and encourage him to not wake for them so early?  this means I am awake the whole time until I eventually feed him, would probably get more sleep if I just fed him and put him back to bed, but don't want to encourage NF...what do you think is best here to encourage STTN?
- We have a 7/7/30pm bedtime which I would like to stick to...I would actually like to be starting his day at 7am, but he feeds too close prior to this (5.30/6am) to put him back and get him up again at 7....this kind of throws out the whole 3hrly/4hrly EASY finishing at 7pm, and makes each day quite unpredictable, and am not sure how I can adjust this to have a set 'start' time?  I have thought about making up this hour during the day which would mean he either sleeps an hour longer or is awake an hour longer....he would struggle on the awake time, and am reluctant to sleep him more during the day for fear of robbing his nightime sleep...any thoughts?

Would really appreciate your input

Caila

[*Jo*]

ok, for his age you really should be aiming for a 12 hour day and a 12 hour night otherwise he will become OT. have you tried not doing a DF? the point of a DF is to tank him up obviously but perhaps its waking him up more and disrupting his night sleep, I know a couple of times with Caleb we didnt do the dreamfeed and he woke up at different times so was easier to work the day out.

the thing is that you want to consider anything before 7am a NF and so you dont get him up at 6am at all, even if it means he only goes back to sleep for 30mins you still try and put him back, maybe use shh/pat if you need to but he really needs that sleep.

I would also try and extend his A time by 10mins, it could be that hes actually waking up to play instead of feed, have you tried leaving him to see what he does? does he cry hard or is it a mantra cry?

so here are my suggestions: up his A time by 10mins, make sure his cry is due to hunger in the night and maybe try and not do the DF and see what happens?

what do you think of that?

[caila]

Hi there, thanks for your input, really appreciate it and what you are saying makes perfect sense... - yes not doing the dreamfeed was something we considered trying for exactly the reason you give, we will go ahead and do that now, its good to know you think that is worth a try too

Re whether he is waking due to hunger, I think the 4/5am wake up's aren't hunger but as he just lies awake grizzling/crying and by the time we get to 6.30/7am he still isn't asleep, I kind of don't know what to do with him as he then gets tired again as he has been awake all that time? and also if I didn't feed him until 7 then it would be a 5 hour gap between 2am and 7 which is probably too long?  or do you think try and extend the 2am feed to push the next one out?  would love to know what you think  Also if I manage to get him back down even for 1/2 an hour, should I wake him again at 7 to start the day?

I will try and extend his activity time, that is a good idea, is your logic for that to try to stop the EW?  I wondered that but wasn't sure....I was thinking of extending by 15 mins a time which would mean cutting out the catnap at the end of the day and being able to put him down at 7pm instead of 7.30 (I only do 7.30 as its too long a stretch between 4 and 7, but then the catnap pushes bed time out) which would get us closer to a 12 hour day/12 hour night...what do you think?

Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate you taking the time 
Caila

[*Jo*]

With A time we wont know until you try it and see what the results are, the other option of course is offering him less A time (confused yet? yep its all trial and error here) its up to you which one you want to try first. If you think he can handle more A time then do it, but if hes looking like he cant then dont push it or you will end up with a bigger mess on your hands.

at night a 5 hour gap is fine through the night between feeds, but at the same time two feeds in a night is perfectly fine for his age as well.
I think if you do manage to get him back to sleep even for half an hour then you should wake him again at 7am to start your day, then give him a top of a feed so that his tummy will be as full as it would have been at the same time every day

[caila]

Thanks for your help, fingers crossed :-)

[*Jo*]

let me know how you get on