naps gone to 35mins,dropped CN, NW AGAIN = EW AGAIN - don't know where to start

[mellyD]

Hi all,

So I'm back with more issues - not that everything got sorted but we did see an improvement - ok so where do I start?

DD2 6.5 month recently dropped CN and was doing 2 x 1.5 hr naps roughly - but was still having NW and EW but things improved and we had 2 x 11hr nights 

Now for the past week here is what we have:

waking after 35mins at naps sometimes I can extend with sh/pt or putting the hoover on and get an hour. Then a few random NW more often than not after 2am then every 40 mins until 6am when she wants to get up. I sometimes feel she is hungry and offer her a bottle she will take no more than 4oz settle back and still wake between 5.30-6.00am to start the day. When the naps have been poor I try for a CN but she fights it until after 5pm then she may take one and I wake her after 45mins I know this is too late. Anyway this is our EASY for past few days:

Wake 6.00am

E - 7.30am - (5oz bottle - will not take it sooner and still doesn't seem very hugry)
     8.15am - (2oz formula + solids)
A - 8.30-9.00am(2.45 - 3hrs from wake up look for sleep cues)
S - 35 mins wake up happy
E - 11.30am (solids+formula mixed in refused this bottle even before weaned)
A - 2.5-3hrs from wake up
S - 12.30pm ish (35 mins then wake up then I intervine and get about 1.5 hrs)
E -  2.30-3.00 refuses bottle even if I cut solids at 11.30am so give her a snack
A - This is where it gets messy cos she may go until bed time which I would bring forward to 6.00pm or if she takes a CN it's 6.30-7.00pm
E - 4.30pm solids
     6.15pm 6oz bottle
S - 6.30pm

She stirs a bit up until 12 midnight but settles back on her own - then from 2am is the problems start

WHAT A MESS - PLEASE HELP - I have a 3 year old at home aswell so I am sooo tired - followed BW with her and it was fantastic STTN from 5 wks

[anna*]

I think she's giving you overtired naps - 3 hrs is a LOT of A time for 6 months old, she probably needs more like 2.5 - 2.75 MAXIMUM after a long nap or a good night. It might be that you have to watch the clock as well as cues. Also, after a 30 mins nap I would cut her next A time back to 2 hrs, so that she's less likely to be OT for the second nap.

What do you think?

[mellyD]

Yes I will try anything, unfortunately I read your post after 3hrs A this am. Yesterday I managed to get a 3rd nap in so Bedtime was 6.45pm. She took 7oz which is brill for her and slept solid until 4am - at this point she woke happy so I left her but she started to get grumpy so after 45mins I gave her a 3oz feed - I think she would have taken more but I don't want to get her used to feeding to get back to sleep - she then settled herself back to sleep at 5am but sure enough up at 6am.

so her 1st nap today has been after 3hrs A, what would you do if I get a good or poor nap?

Thank you so much for replying -

ps shame my DD1 3years old got up at 2am with a bad dream lol

[anna*]

At 6 months it's still quite normal to need one feed during the night especially if you are not doing a dreamfeed.

After a good nap (1.5hrs or more), she should be able to manage 2.5-2.75hrs for her next A. Watch her cues but watch the clock too. If the nap is short, you will need to cut back that next A time - you could cut it back by however short of 1.5hrs the nap is: so if she sleeps one hour, she will have 30 mins less A time. If she sleeps 30 mins, she will have 1hr less A time. Does that make sense?

[mellyD]

ok so after 3hrs A we got 1hr 40 mins nap (woke at 35min mark but did HTTJ & tiny bit of sh/pt and she went straight back) however she has just fallen asleep in the car when taking DD1 to nursery after 2hrs A so I have put her in her cot, she opened her eyes as I pulled the curtains on and went straight back to sleep.

Have I done the right thing? or should I have woke her to extend the A to 2.5hrs I really didn't think she would fall asleep as the journey is only 5 mins and she doesn't normally but this could be down to a good am nap?

So do I now extend the nap again and offer a CN? if so what sort of time? and then what sort of bedtime?

[anna*]

You will need to keep watching her cues and the clock. Bedtime and catnap are going to depend on how the nap goes, keeping in mind that you don't want her to be awake for more than 2.75hrs (and less after a short nap) I expect she will need to fit a catnap in there just to make it to a reasonable bed time. Yay for the extended morning nap!

[mellyD]

I know that is the best nap we have had for ages, watch this space she will have a great day napping and great night as she is staying at the in laws for the first time so me and DH can go out for the first time in 9 months on our own!!!!! - typical

Hopefully she will come back tomorrow and nap well again

Thank you for your advice I will keep you posted

[mellyD]

ok so things not going so well I am managing to extend 1 if not both naps to 1.5hrs  and get a CN in if one nap is short. However we are stll getting random NW last night I must have had to sh/pt 7/8 times on other occassions she self soothed. She woke at 6am but then after 15mins went back to sleep until 8am!!!! which she has never done so hoping for a nap at 10.30ish then take it from there. Think she is teething cos two bottom ones cut 2 week ago so top ones may be ready and she is showing signs - What do you think?

[anna*]

If you suspect she's wakig up in discomfort, nurofen we found is more effective and long lasting than Calpol for teeth. I can't remember if you are doing any nights feeds/dreamfeed?

[mellyD]

Hi anna,

I think it is discomfort and am giving both nurofen and calpol - don't DF as it was disrupting the night - she has 1 feed in the night and sometimes can go through without 1 and just sh/pt. The thing is I know she can self sooth and go through sleep transitions as she has previously done 11hr nights (very rare but has done it).

This is how today looks
Wake 8am after bad night
E - 8.30 am (3oz bottle)
     9.30 am (2oz + cereal)
A - 1hr 45mins
S - 9.45am fell asleep on her own (30min nap) couldn't extend woke up happy
E - 11.30am (2oz + solids)
A - 3hrs tried to put her down sooner but was having none of it then time to take DD1 to nursery and she fell asleep in car
S - 1.00pm (has just woke at 45min mark so extending it as we speak)

I know everyone with LO are tired but these short naps combined with the NW i'm starting to feel ill - and upset cos my eldest is getting no attention what so ever due to DD2 being so demending. My husband works long hours and my family live in australia so I don't really have any help so thank you for your advice I really appreciate it

[mellyD]

could't extend the 2nd nap so she had 45 mins. Gone down again at 4pm - how long should she have??? after she wakes early do I extend it? or get her up so it doesn't rob night time sleep also what length should A be at the end of the day?? just so I can work out bedtime.

Feel like I am back in the OT cycle again and can't get out of it

[anna*]

(((hugs))) OT is a monster. All you can really do is keep cutting back A times (try 1hr30 for the first one in the morning, and repeat 1hr 30 for the next A if you get a short nap) until you get a longer nap. Overtiredness always wreaks havoc with nights, too

[mellyD]

Thanks anna,

Gonna try really short A times today as she had bad night again - up every 35mins from 11.30pm, however she is teething and under the weather. She keeps chewing on her hands in the night but putting them so far in she is making herself sick so we have a whole change of bed clothes etc.

up at 6am this morning so I put her down for her nap at 8am (before I read your post) thing is cos she is off it she isn't taking her bottles so I'm trying to extend an OT nap with a hungry little girl who doesn't want her milk and has a tickly cough!!!!!

Never mind this OT monster won't beat us ha. To top it off DH is working away this week lol

So do you think if I can extend naps then great increase A to say 2.5 hrs if not keep A to 1.5-2 hrs?? and put her down for them regardless of how many naps she has had???

[anna*]

Totally. It doesn't matter how many naps she has, she just needs to catch up on sleep so if she won't have a few long naps she needs lots of short naps. Good luck for today

[mellyD]

This is what we have today so far - with an upset tummy, bad dirty nappies, tickly cough and teething so I am trying my best but need advice on the later pa
rt of the day.

Woke 6.15am
E - 8am - milk then solids (not a lot as off food)
A - 2hrs
S - 45 mins woke at 9am
E - 11am - 2oz bottle
A - 2hrs 15mins
S - 1hr 15 mins woke at 12.30pm( I extended in middle)
E - 2pm - 5oz bottle + bit solids
A - I am planning on this being 2 1/2 hrs as i have to pick DD1 from nursery so hoping she has a CN on the way.
S - HOW LONG SHOULD I MAKE THIS GIVEN I@M HOPING SHE SLEEPS FROM 3pm??/

A fast response would be much appreciated