NWs are getting out of hand-can you see where I need a tweek?

[greenteamomma]

Hello everyone, haven't been here for a while since I am back to work and barely sleeping when I am home!  Background:  started going to daycare about a month ago about the same time as he was refusing his 20 min morning naps.  The lady tried and tried with the mornings but it didn't work.  Everything seemed ok since he was sleeping almost 3 hrs in the pm.  His EW that had been going on for two straight months had stopped and he was waking at a reasonable time.  He occasionally had some night wakes but they were more like crying out and I rarely had to go in.
Now the nap is getting shorter, the EW have returned and momma is losing her mind!

We set the nap to 12 even in the beginning since any earlier, no matter what time he woke up (i.e 5:30 ish), and he doesn't nap long.  He showes no sleep signs, never has.  I put him down 4.5 hrs after his nap, no matter what time he wakes up from his pm nap.  I'm not sure what to do.  Once asleep, his wake ups seem almost timed, 9:30 then 2:00 then 4:30 or 5:00.  My husband often goes in during the night and tells him to sleep, and finally if it happens too often he sleeps on the floor.  He never picks him up, just consoles him and tells him THE PHRASE and never gets him up until 6:30.  We medicate sometimes, but the worry of killing his liver is always in the back of my mind   We still do if we are certain though.  Just not sure what my options are???   

[babybarr]

Bumping up for you.

[*Liz*]

Sounds similar to what my little early nap transitioner did to me.

Can you just post what your day looks like at the moment with the nap lengths in there?

For us what was happening was that he was taking shorter naps and that was giving too long of an A time to bed and he was then getting OT - but I do a fixed badtime really.

ARE there any teeth coming though as the teething of the molars and canines really is TOUGH compared to the early teeth.

[greenteamomma]

Hi Liz, I remember speaking with you many times about my early transitioner.  It really helped that he did it at the child minders, the less you know....she said it was a breeze! 

Well, it also seems he sleeps better at the child minders then home!  Here is what the weekend looked like, it was really all over the board.

Sat
wake 4:45 then 5:20 then 6:00 ish
nap 12:00 (long A I know...)
wake 1:30 would not extend
bed6:00

sun
wake similar wake ups then finally 6:20 (monitor was off as DH was on DS's floor telling him to sleep)
nap 11:55
wake 1:50ish would not extend (thought I would try)
bed 6:20ish maybe 6:30

today
wake 4:40 then 5:20 then ? will ask DH when he comes home as I left for work at 5:45
nap 12:00 till 1:50 (child minder woke him since he had a doc's apt)
bed 6:30

He goes down easy but seems to wake most nights.  It really could be teeth as I can "see" his canines through the gums.  The first top molars have pierced through on one side.  The bottom gums are soft pink, no teeth in sight.  thanks for taking a peek!

[*Liz*]

I think there are a few things happening - firstly the teeth could be starting to cause trouble and secondly a bit of OT is creeping in.

Also bedtime is really early ATM so even an 11hr night out of your LO is still resulting in an early wake for you. Not sure if that bothers you or not though.

How old was he when he went to 1 nap in the end? I do remember your 9 mth old posts!

Also it isn't uncommon for those 3 hr naps to last for 4-6 weeks and then once the LO is used to 1 nap days they go back to 2 hrs again.

I think I would try an earlier nap as the first step (with some teething meds before) and see if that helps. It does seem as though you are getting a better nap with 5.5hrs A than the 6 hrs on saturday, so I think I would try 5.5hrs A first and see if that helps.

I basically have the same routine as you do - but my DS is quite a bit older (although he was an early transitioner as well) - so I suspect the A's are just a bit too much for him and a bit of OT is creeping in. I don't think it is major OT or anything though - likely something 15 - 30 mins A will fix for you.

[greenteamomma]

thanks Liz, I`ll see what the babyminder can do...not always possible to do what YOU want when you send the baby to daycare, is it?  I know this is counter productive to posting but its nice not having to worry as much about naps!  I was a bit obsesses. 

Yes, this did all start at 9 months and then stopped, or went back to age appropriate timing etc.  The last time he had a nap was the last week of January and it caused a mess that lasted for days!  Also, the daycare lady coudn't but I could so she gave up i suspect though she said she kept trying.  Another time she said it was easier for the rest of the day on one nap...but at home on the weekend he doesn't go down anymore either.  I can't believe you are on the same routine!  How long have you been doing that?  YOu have EW too!  ARG, it's a kid thing isn't it?  Doesn't matter what we do!  Now the only way he sleeps in is if he had a rough night and one of us sleeps on the floor and tell him to go back to sleep, momma and appa are sleeping!  LOL

We'll keep the 5.5 hrs of A time in mind! 

[greenteamomma]

Oh, forgot to add, last night he was up for two hours babbling and singing!  What's up with that?  He usually whines as I explained above...much nicer sound but that isn't UT is it? 

[*Liz*]

I have been purposefuly doing 6 hrs am A for about 4 weeks now. It was always 5-5.5hrs first thing when we first went to one nap and stayed that way for a good 3 months or so until the next A increase.

My DS is very prone to EWs - for either OT or too much daytime sleep (or teething or whatever for that matter). But I'm not getting NWs as well. NWs and EWs together would be either pain or OT for sure round here.

I honestly doubt that NW was UT. Toddlers seem to behave a bit more erratically. And I just do not think that you need to cut down his sleep anymore at this age. If it *is* UT then the better thing to do would be to push back the final A a tad and accept a shorter night. BUT we need to get rid of the NWs before coming to that conclusion, hey?