DESPERATE - Should I use WI/WO during NWs?

[workerb]

Sorry for re-posting my e-mail but I really need some help.  I have just spent the last hour 1:15am-2:15am doing wi/wo in DD's NW.  I couldn't stand it anymore, so after an hour, I resorted to standing next to the crib until she fell asleep.  Of course, the moment I left the room, she got up crying.  I am SO EXHAUSTED I am delirious and don't know what to do now!  BTW, tonight, it took me 1 hour and 10 minutes of wi/wo to get her settled and finally asleep.  Am I not suppose to do wi/wo during NW?  And, what is the deal with all the NWs?!!

Hi!
I have just spent 1 hour doing wi/wo on a NW.  I don't think this works.  I'm totaly frustrated.

Here is a little background: In the past I would put DD (18 mos. old) in her crib, pat her and brush her hair back from her eyes (with my fingers) as part of her bedtime routine.  Then, since I slept in the same room as her, I would walk over to my bed and lay down.  I'd wait until I hear her deep breathing before leaving the room.  I know, I was a prop through AP.  I kept planning to wean DD off of this routine, but never have the energy to do it.  I usually fell asleep in my bed around the same time as DD.  She would have occasional NWs where she would settle herself.

Then in mid-Jan. to 3rd week of February, DD started having weird NWs.  She would wake up every hour from midnight to 5:00am.  From 5:00am to 7:00am (when we get up for the day), she woke up every 10-15 minutes.  I could settle her from my bed (I didn't need to stand next to the crib) by just telling DD that it was sleep time, and she would fall back asleep.  This went on for over 1 month.  I was exhausted!!  About 2 weeks ago, I tried to get DD to sleep without me in the bedroom.  I would open and shut the door as if I have left the room but not actually leave.  When she started crying, I would reassure her that I'm still in the bedroom, and lay down in my bed.

About a week and a half ago, after my bedtime routine, she would cry every time I took a step away from the crib.  This reaction was the same at naptime, bedtime and at NWs; would not let me step away from the crib.  However, she fell asleep faster at naptime than at bedtime.  Now she has stopped the hourly wake up, but she still wakes up 3-4 times a night.  Then yesterday morning, she woke up at 4:06am and would not sleep or settle down.  She would fuss and cry.  I tried to reassure her; that didn't work.  I even stood by her crib, but she refused to lay down.  So, I went back to bed and told her that I am  in the same room as her.  She fussed and cried from 4-7am.  The same thing happened this mornnig.  I don't believe she was crying hard, but it is weird that she stood in the crib for 3 hours.  She also could not settle herself for yesterday's nap.  I did controlled crying, and she fussed and cried from 1-3:30pm (her normal naptime) and eventually did not nap.

I have read some of the e-mails on this post and thought wi/wo might work for me.  Last night was my first attempt, but I messed up and did controlled crying for the first 2 hours and wi/wo for the next 1.5 hours (took DD 3.5 hours before falling asleep).  I put her down to sleep earlier at 7:00pm (her normal bedtime is 8pm) since she did not nap.  She only had 1 NW and that was at 4:00am.  Tonight I only did wi/wo.  It took almost 2 hours of going in every 5 seconds.  DD cried a lot, so I probably went in a couple of hundreds of times.  Why are other people's experiences a lot less wi?  I read an e-mail where mom went in 6 times over a 20 minute period.  Am I going in too often? 

Then, DD woke up at midnight and I pat and sh'd her back to sleep (I didn't leave the room).  She woke up again at 1:27am, and I tried wi/wo.  I did it for an 1 hour and eventually gave up and I put my hand on DD's back and stayed in the room until DD fell back to sleep.  Are we suppose to do wi/wo during NWs?  Now, she is up again at 3:45am. 

Sorry for the long e-mail.  Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated!  I'm at the end of my rope.  I can barely think due to the lack of sleep.  PLEASE HELP!!

Thanks!
Elle

   

[*Becky*]

Hi there,
Sorry you are having a rough time. I am going to bump this up for you to see if we can get you some help. Tracey Hogg, The Baby Whisperer did not advocate any form of CC or CIO - I just have to mention that.
I am sure some of the lovely ladies on this site can give you some help. Hang in there
becky x

[workerb]

Hi Becky,
Thank you for responding.  I know BW does not advocate CC, but I thought I'd give it a try at nap.  It didn't work, so I've been trying to stick it out with wi/wo.  I'm hoping it will be better tonight.

In your response to my prior post, you asked for her routine, so here is DD's daily routine:
7am Wake up, dress, milk
8am Eat breakfast
9am Attend preschool class with 3 year old sister on T/Th; run errands or stay home with mom on MWF
12pm/12:30 Eat lunch
1pm/1:30pm Take nap
3:30pm/4pm Wake up from nap and drink milk; play with sister until dinner time
6pm Eat dinner
7pm Play until bath (yes, it takes her an hour to eat!)
7:30 Bathtime then a little milk before bed
8pm Bedtime routine; usually asleep between 8-9pm with mom/dad laying in the room (as a prop) until she falls asleep

I was trying to stop being the prop by doing GW, but then she started crying even when I leave the side of her crib.

I'm going to try wi/wo tonight when I put her down to sleep at 7pm (should I do earlier bedtime?).  However, I'm wondering how to tackle the NWs.

Thanks!

[~ Vik ~]

Hi and (((hugs)))   I don't have any BTDT experience with wi/wo (my ds is spirited and will have none of it - it's a total disaster in here) but couldn't read and not post.

Couple things first - wondering if there's a reason for those frequent night wakings.  Could she be teething?  The behaviour you're describing fits my ds to a TEE when he started getting his molars and then again when he was (is ) getting his canines.  Have you tried pain meds to see if that helps her to settle at all?  What about discomfort of some kind - any new foods?  food intolerance or allergies?  problems with gas or constipation?  Room too cold/hot/dark/bright/etc.?

Two suggestions now that contradict each other, so take this FWIW:
- I also wonder if bedtime is a bit late?  If she's not falling asleep until 9pm that's pretty late - knowing that it takes her a while to fall asleep I wonder if trying bed around 730 might work better?
- On the flip side, wondering if it's time to cut the nap back a bit?  Even though she's having 10h nights, with a 3h nap that's actually a reasonable amount of sleep in 24h for an 18mo old - I wonder if part of the reason that she's fighting bed so badly is that she's UT at 8pm because her nap was so long?

Also wanted to agree with Becky - BW does not advocate CC or CIO of any kind.  The difference between CC and wi/wo is that with CC you go back at set time intervals, with no regard to the quality of your lo's cries, and you do not deviate from the timing.  With wi/wo you go back in when your lo needs you, not based on the clock.  When you walk out, you listen to your lo's cry.  Count to 10, not to go by the clock, but to give yourself that time to assess her cry - does she need you?  Is she settling herself?  Is it a mantra cry?  If she needs you, you go back in immediately, reassure (doing whatever it is you do), and leave again.  Repeat as needed. 

You said that you've tried GW in the past, what have you done?  To what stage/part of the room did you make it?  If your dd has never slept independently GW really is the preferred method to wean prop dependence; wi/wo is more for babies who have slept independently in the past but have gotten off track.  Would be happy to try to help you with a GW plan if you think that would be helpful.

(((hugs))) and hoping that tonight is going ok for you

[workerb]

Hi Vikki,
Thank you for your support and suggestions.  I don't understand why she is having NWs.  Back in January she suddenly had NWs every hour.  That lasted a little over a month.  At least at those times, I just needed to tell her that it is not time to get up yet.  I usually didn't have to leave my bed or pat her for her to settle herself back to sleep.  I assumed the NWs occurred because she was walking more steadily, so she was hitting some milestone (she started walking in November).  I have no idea about the current NWs.  I don't think there is any new physical milestone.  Now, she won't let me leave the side of the crib without crying hard.

She wasn't teething back in January, and I don't believe she is teething now.  She still only has her 8 front teeth.  Poor thing, it is hard for her to eat.  Wrt pain meds, I've given her fever reducer/pain medication when she ran fevers due to virus infections back in January/February.  It did not change her NWs.  Maybe it was more like every 2 hours instead of 1 hour when she was on the meds.  Most kids would sleep more and better during those times, but not my DD.  She has not had any new foods or allergies that I'm aware of.  I'll keep those in mind though.  I have a heater, humidifier, nightlight and CD player playing lullabies in her room.  The last 2 items were just added this past Monday.  However, in the past we left her door ajar to let in some light to her room.

Yeah, I really didn't like doing the controlled crying.  I only did it because I didn't know anything about wi/wo.  I was reading the posts and learning about wi/wo while doing CC.  That is why I didn't know it is more for babies who slept independently.  In the past I would do the bedtime routine, then put DD in her crib awake but sleepy.  I would just lie on my bed (about 5 feet away) until I heard her heavy breathing then I would get up and leave the room.  While lying there, I would not say anything or even make too much noise.  But she knew I was there. 

When I attempted GW, I just opened the bedroom door and closed it again as if I left the room.  I was testing to see if DD would get use to the changes in darkness and the door noise.  She would stand up and start crying.  I would immediately go and comfort her at first then I would just stay by my bed and verbally comfort her.  I still stayed in the room until she fell asleep.  I also would stand by MY bed or other areas of the room where she could not see me instead of lying in the bed.  I only did this for about a week before she got this clingy.  Also, a few days before all this happened, DD weaned herself off breastfeeding.  She would drink the milk if I pumped it, but refused the boob.  It just happened one night.  She refused it for 3 nights in a row before I stopped offering it.  I also stopped pumping because I was only able to pump about 1 ounce so what was the point.

Tonight, it took me 50 minutes of wi/wo for her to settle herself and fall asleep.  I followed her cues more tonight rather than just going in every 5-10 seconds.  However, I put her to sleep later (8:20pm rather than 7:15pm which was last night's bedtime) because she napped from 1:15pm to 4:00pm today.  During her naptime, when she woke crying at 3:20pm, I did stand by the crib until she fell back asleep (it only took 5 minutes).  I was afraid if I did wi/wo, it would get her more wired.  Since I've done wi/wo for the last 4 nights, should I switch to GW now?  Maybe I should continue with wi/wo for the rest of the week.  Also, how should I handle the NWs or early wake ups from naps?

Sorry for writing so much.  I'll try to reply with a shorter response next time.  Thanks!

[*Liz*]

I do wonder if she is teething as well TBH as if she only has her 8 front teeth she is certainly due some. We had some trouble with the molars and he is just finishing getting his canines and they caused exactly the same amount of trouble. Her abrupt weaning of BFing makes me wonder about teeth as well.

Can you get a look at her gums and see if anything is swollen? These LO's often look fine during the day while they are distracted but are then dreadful at night.

I do use WIWO with my DS and am happy to explain how I do it - but one of the reasons I use it is that DS will not settle to sleep with me in the room. So GW would never work for me anyway. I think you need to decide which method would be best and stick with it really - if you think you DD has always been dependent on your presence in the room to go to sleep then we would usually recommend GW. WIWO is usually used with LOs who have been independent sleepers in the past who are haing a bit of a 'blip'.

But if you are starting to have success with WIWO then I would stick with it anyway. I wouldn't go in and out as often as 5-10 secs though - it seems very frequent as as though it could be very distracting. I have never timed what I do (as you aren't supposed to anyway  , but do tend to find that he will howl when I walk away from him and go out - but those wails are stort lived and calm quickly - so I do wait to see if he will calm and if he doesn't then I go back in.



You could also try some pain meds before bed and see if that helps?