Starving Out

[sharkalopodous]

Hi,
I've been reading some of the baby whisperer methods to switch my baby from breast to bottle. My baby is 7 months old. I just found out I'm pregnant, and it's not why I want to wean her but my milk supply has dropped significantly. She doesn't seem to have any interest in nursing anymore because of it. Also when I took her to the doctor, he said he was very concerned about her weight gain in the last 2 months and wants me to put her on some formula to help her gain. Whatever the reasons, I don't need to hear that breastfeeding is the way to go. I know that already and I wish I could and this has been a difficult decision. So anyways...

The past 2 days, she has only BF for about 4 minutes once a day around 5am. She won't BF at all during the day. I have been trying to give her a bottle the last 2 days. It doesn't matter whats in the bottle: formula, EBM, pedialyte....she doesn't want anything to do with it. She will not drink it if I spoon feed her or try a cup. She just freaks right out. I am getting extremely frustrated. Today I decided to try what some other people mentioned, and just not feed her and try with the bottle every hour. She has not breast fed since yesterday at 5am. So far it's not working, she freaks out, cries hysterically. I have already had 2 breakdowns today because this is so difficult. Should I be feeding her solid foods still or should I just wait it out?

How long do I wait before I should be concerned and offer her solids again?

Thanks

[malenka]

Sending you massive (((hugs))).

I can understand why weaning would be a difficult process, especially if it's something you weren't quite ready to start yet. Good work for making it this far with breastfeeding, but try not to feel bad about having to switch to formula - your LO got 7 months of the benefits of breast milk, which is great.

As for the switch to bottle, have you tried having someone else give it to her?

What about handing her the bottle when she's in her highchair? I've heard others have had success with this.

You said that spoon feeding and a cup hasn't worked, but have you tried a syringe?

Have you tried different bottles/teats? There are some that feel and act more like the breast.

[Lolly]

Just to clarify, when you say your baby hasn't BF since yesterday and she is refusing bottles does that mean she hasn't had anything since yeaterday? What has she had over the last 24/ 48 hours? If she has had nothing then you really need to get some food/ liquid in her. If she shows any signs of being dehydrated please get some medical advice, so make sure she is having wet nappies and her mouth and eyes are normally moist and that her fontanelle isn't sunken in.

There is advice here http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=67858.0 which may be of some help.

Laura

[sharkalopodous]

Hi thanks for the responses. Yesterday she had some cereal with water in it, and some pedialyte. I mean some liquid does get into her mouth in all the kicking and screaming, so I'm not too worried yet about dehydration.

I have tried Avent, Mam, Medela, Adriri and sippy cups...it seems to be the silicone, it gets anywhere near her lips and she freaks, same with an open cup. I've tried in a high chair, I've tried holding her and lying her down. The only thing that seems to "work" is if I turn the tv on, she gets distracted and I can slip the bottle in her mouth, but she still wont drink from it and does eventually bat it away. Yesterday my husband tried giving her the bottle the whole day instead of me. It's now 5:40pm, she still hasn't taken a bottle, she hasn't even latched onto one yet so I'm starting to get concerned. My friend just came and took her and is taking her for the evening and is going to try because it's too stressful for me, I'm too emotional about it. I will keep you updated if anything happens but it doesn't look promising.

What do I do if she just refuses to drink anything? Is there anywhere to take her? There's plenty of breastfeeding clinics, but there doesn't seem to be anything else. I don't know what to do if she continues to refuse.

[jennyandgraham]

We had a fairly similar battle to get our DD to take a bottle, it was really heartbreaking.  I ended up breastfeeding her in the evening just to make sure something had gone into her.  It took 2 days of hell before she finally took it out of hunger.
Two problems we had were the vent on the bottle not working properly and we were using number 1 flow teats.  When she did suck she didn't get much and after a few sucks she was sucking against vacuum so she got frustrated.  NUK bottles had hopeless valves, we use Tommee Tippees now and she takes them fine.  We also put music on to distract her.
I try to snuggle DD up like I'm breastfeeding her, sometimes she likes her arm to be around me but initially she prefered both arms to be beside her sides when she was fed.
Good luck

[*Liz*]

How are you both doing?

[Brock~Tahlia~Mummy]

Wow...this sounds tough! Hugs to you. I agree with Lolly keep an eye on dehydration.

I am having difficulties with DS taking his bottle at the moment it all started with teething about 4weeks ago now. He was a fantastic eater before...I was so upset when this all started, I took it very personally! I didn't have an issue with BF weaning - as I weaned earlier and he was in a growth spurt.

I can't help you with your milk feeding problem as I'm experiencing this too,   but I can say  I am still offering my LO solids and water when he refuses milk, at least they are getting something. I have an awesome recipe that contains veggies and chicken breast, that he loves (let me know if you want it) also the added protein is great for them as well as adds extra calories. I add milk where ever possible like in all solid meals and make his breakfast cereal extra milky with mashed bananas loves this too.
Today DS have refused 7am and 11.30am bottle...fingers crossed for the 4pm bottle! He has hungry days and not so hungry days.

I will keep checking in, good luck, try not to take the refusal personally. xxxx

 
 
 
 

[sharkalopodous]

Here's an update. So my friend took her Wednesday evening. At this point, she had not eaten the WHOLE day. My friend msg'd me at around 10:30 at night and said she still refused anything. We were using Nestle Goodstart powder. My doctor recommended that to me because he said it is a bit sweeter than the others and makes for easier transitioning. But she wouldn't take it. So my friend called her friend who works for children's aid society and unfortunately has to deal with taking babies away etc. She suggested in her experience to try ready to drink formula. She also suggested the nestle one. Apparently she said its much easier to get babies to drink the ready to drink stuff than the powder. She also said that my daughter may not like silicone nipples. My friend went and got the ready to drink and tried with the playtex dropins and she drank about 2 oz at 12am! Finally progress.

Anyways yesterday apparently she was getting used to it and crying and fighting it but eventually giving in and drinking it. My friend also tried the concentrated stuff where you add water, and she drank that ok too. She also tried enfamil and that worked. BUT she tried to give her the powder again and it would not work. But at least we have a start. Then apparently last night at 7:30 she refused the bottle again. My friend put her down for a nap and at around 2am she woke up and still completely refused the bottle BUT would take the formula from a dropper. So this is HUGE progress. This morning she refused the bottle again. But apparently right now she is taking it again with a tad of pedialyte added to it for incentive. I will wean her from this but at least she's eating, thats the main thing. 

So she is definitely making progress. But I would say that the starving out method doesn't work for really stubborn babies which mine is. So what I'd suggest for anyone who was in the same situation as me is
1) Try the ready to drink stuff or the concentrated stuff
2) Try a latex nipple. I found my daughter a few months ago loved the mam nipples. She still loves her mam pacifier, but now she is taking the drop in bottles.

I will update you more later She's coming home today I am excited Thanks for the encouragement!

[*Liz*]

Tracey does warn that some very stubborn older babies can take 3-5 days to take milk from a bottle, but the majority will take less than 24 hrs.

I did do a cold turkey to bottle with Jacob at 6 mths - but I did use a different technique which was to try in 12 hr stretches and then BF overnight. He took the bottle at the end of the second day - but I used EBM and then diluted onto formula.

So that is another option for others trying to wean from breast - to get onto EBM first and then just slowly dilute onto the formula - I appreciate that this would not have been a feasible option for you though since one of your reasons for weaning is low supply and pregancy.

I do agree with trying a non-silicone teat - MAM silk teats worked here.

I'm very glad that your LO is taking something now though - they do say with LO's on solids that you should continue the solids and sips of water through the transition.

I wish I had seen your post earlier - but I think on of the hardest things about this sort of situation (especially with older babies) is that different things work for different babies. So a lot of the things you recommend were a no-no here - he HATED premade formula, didn't like the sweeter ones either (in the end he settled on one of the bog standard ones), and still to this day will only have milk from me really. So despite being on a bottle since he was 7 mths old milk still comes from Mummy  .

So I guess it is a good thing I missed your post as I would have been no help at all.
 
But just wanted to say I am really relieved to here that your LO is doing better now, as I was worried about dehydration etc as well, and just wanted to post a few extra points for any other Mums who are doing a breast to bottle wean  .

And Brocks Mummy - hope your LO settles back to his bottles soon. Teething seems to cause some VERY unpredictable teething behaviour.

((hugs))

[Brock~Tahlia~Mummy]

How are you guys going?

[sharkalopodous]

It is difficult because every baby is so different. And they all settle on different bottles and formulas.

That night I gave my daughter to my friend, I pumped thinking I might need to so I wouldn't get engorged. I never ended up getting engorged and I pumped for about 1/2 hour only to get less than 5 ml from both breasts. So no wonder my daughter didn't want to breastfeed, lol.

I would have probably used EBM too if my daughter took the bottle to transition her, but unfortunately I didn't have anything left and her issue was more with the bottle than what was in it.

The day after she came home, I decided to try giving her a bottle without any added pedialyte and she took it just fine. She was only taking about 2-3 oz the first couple days and since yesterday afternoon she has been steadily taking about 4 oz each feeding and we are trying to get 4 bottles in a day but that's been difficult because her naps have been thrown off a bit and we are trying to get her back into a schedule. The formula seems to be having her take longer naps. While on BM she would nap 1-1.5 hours twice a day and now she is napping for 2-3 hours so my timing is a bit off.

But she is doing really well and I am so relieved. She still won't take the powdered formula, but I'm lucky because the grocery store near my house ALWAYS has cans of the concentrated stuff for 50% off so it ends up being really cheap

[Lolly]

That's good sounds like progress! With the pumping, a baby will get far more out than the pump will. There are plenty of mums here with very good milk supply that aren't able to pump at all - baby is far more efficient! What you got out is no indication of what she gets out.

Laura

[Brock~Tahlia~Mummy]

That's great she's finally eating! What a relief for you! When my DS finally drinks it's like a huge weight is lifted!
I'm still in a battle zone with DS, I've named it 'the bottle battle time'.
Not in front of DS of course...
I'm posting in health and medical to try and get more ideas, i just plain and simple can't figure out why my DS has just decided to hate bottle time...Ohhhhh.
So happy for you! Great news

[malenka]

That's great news! What a relief for you.

Hope things keep improving from here on in.