Need some eyes on out-of-character bedtime struggles, NWs and EWs - 17.5 mos

[aimeeL]

SO.  L's sleep has gotten a bit funny these last 2 weeks.. we started on one nap one wk prior to that, and she was doing BEAUTIFULLY... sleeping for about 2 hrs right off the bat.  Two wks ago, we went on a vacation, and that threw her sleep all off.  Short nap the first day, and we sort of downward-spiralled from there... lots of OT which then meant some long NWs.. Throughout the whole wk, I probably pulled her into bed or slept with her during a nap 2-3 times. 

Got back a wk ago, and at first, she adjusted beautifully.  Long naps again Fri, Sat and Sun.  But this wk, we've started having bedtime struggles - which we haven't had in a LONG time.  After bath, sippy and books, I take her to her room and put her in her crib.  Cue immediate crying.  DH then goes into her, tells her to go to sleep, and she lays right down!  Sometimes takes 10-15 min to go to sleep, but no more crying.  But then we've also gotten 3-4 NWs each night, PLUS an EW 2 out of the last 4 days..  With the NWS, again, DH only has to stick his head in, tell her to go back to sleep, AND SHE DOES.  If/when I go in, she cries hysterically, won't let me leave, and I end up rocking her until she's out cold. 

Just can't figure out why all the bedtime drama, NWs and EWs all of a sudden?  Our routine the past few days:

Monday
6:10 - EW
12:10 - 2 p.m. - nap (a little shorter than normal - woke on her own)
6:30 p.m. - put her to bed, but she fought like crazy, so we brought her back out, read some more books, then put her back down at 6:45 p.m.  Still some crying, but DH did a brief WIWO and she settled down and asleep by 7 p.m.
2-3 NWs

Tuesday
6:30 - wakeup
12:35 - 2:45 - nap (woke up from nap to preserve bedtime)
7:15 p.m. - bedtime - cried immediately; DH didn't get home from work until 7:45 p.m. - at which pt, he went in, she quieted, and was asleep by about 8 p.m.
No NWs

Wednesday
5:50 - EW!!
10:20-10:40 - am CN (haven't done this in awhile, but just didn't see how she'd manage on just one nap)
1:45-3:20 - pm nap
7:15 p.m. - bedtime - cried and needed DH to resettle
    3 NWs before 9:30 p.m.! - 4th at 3:30 a.m. - cried out at 5:50 a.m., but ended up resettling herself

Any thoughts?  She *is* getting canines atm - lumpy, swollen gums - although no whites yet..  Have been medicating at bedtime and then at night if/when she wakes up at the pt where they would've worn off... Have a hunch that it could just be accumulated OT from the 2-1 transition... I thought she was doing great, but may have in fact, been getting a bit OT each day and it just caught up to us?

DH is worried that we/he are becoming a prop... and that somehow, perhaps through vacation, she's forgotten how to help herself through sleep cycles?  Often, her first NW will be 45 min after bedtime...

What to do, what to do.... TIA! =)

[scucci1979]

Haven't seen you in a while.    For us, canines caused many sleep disturbances, which included SA and bedtime refusal. She did not want to be alone.  I would recommend some homeopathic remedies for the day time and advil/motrin for night time. (which you are already doing)
I noticed that on the days she has an EW, her A time is around 6hrs. Can you shorten that.  Ews for us is usually caused by a build up of OT. I think she may be OT ATM.
 I do remember reading that their sleep needs drop around 18months.  I recently had to cut Madi's nap from 3hrs to 2.5hours which helped with the EWs for now. I am wondering if on days she wakes at a normal time, don't let her sleep longer then 2hrs 

I do believe that the canines are playing a large role.  They are absolutely awful. We went through a month of hell.  Things will get back to normal once they cut. 

Curious to see what others have to say.

[aimeeL]

TERRIBLE night last night... so..

Thursday
7 a.m. - wakeup
12:20-2 p.m. - nap
6:45 p.m. - bedtime
5+ NWs...

ARGH.

Thanks for the reassurance, Sabrina... she was so miserable last night - I guess it might be those dang canines?!  Am going out to get baby Motrin today...

And the thing with the morning A time is - I drive home with her from work at around noon so she has been falling asleep in the car... which is why her naps start after noon... am wondering, though, if I should just bring her pack n play back to school/work (we brought it home when we thought we were done with the am nap there!) and stay at school while she naps - maybe putting her down right at noon or a little earlier.. we'll see..

[LucySol]

Hey Aimee-i am going to agree with that A time,its v.long for just starting out on 1 nap.i would pull her back to 5 hrs A at most especially with her being so OT.

Have you tried medicating at bedtime,doing a Dream med at 10/11pm and another maybe 4am for a while.poor baby sounds like she is struggling xx

[scucci1979]

I am wondering if that snooze in the car is playing a role.  It is not a restful sleep, which will lead her to become OT.
I would try letting her nap without the snooze and see if that helps. 

[aimeeL]

I'm not so much worried about the nap in the car not being restful - simply because EVERY SINGLE TIME she has transferred over to her crib very easily and has slept a good length of time.. I'm more worried about it becoming a prop - and therefore having difficulty being put into her crib awake when it's bedtime.. ykwim?  But still - I'm thinking of trying out the nap at school next wk - that would shorten the A time AND eliminate the snooze in the car....

I have been medicating, Lucy, but tonight I tried Motrin for the first time... we'll see how that goes. 

Am not expecting great things tonight; we did two naps because of the broken night.. but had a music program at school that both DH and I HAD to be at... grrrrr... so she did a long A till bedtime.. anyways - will keep you posted.. thanks for the support!

[scucci1979]

I was thinking that the nap in the car would interfere with her overall sleep. I find that if Madi sleeps 10min in the car, it seems to throw off her schedule.  I just don't get it! Hang in there. Those canines are horrible.  We are waiting for her last one to cut. I find that since they started, her napping has cut drastically and we had many many EWs. 
We use Motrin and find that it works wonderfully. 

Let us know how your night goes. I am hoping for a good night as she woke up early and didn't have a full 2hour nap-the nap is new for us.

[aimeeL]

Well, guess what!  Even after the late bedtime, she STTN! - for the first time in a wk!  I was so surprised!  Short night still - 8:30-6:30, but I'll take it.  PLUS she took a fabulous 3 hr nap today!  For the first time we've been doing 1 nap, I just let her sleep as long as she wanted... and what do you know - no crying at bedtime!  So I'm almost positive the bedtime struggle has been OT...   Obviously doesn't meant that we're home free or that we won't have NWs tonight.. but am just feeling so much better after her long nap AND the easy bedtime. 

Did Motrin for the first time last night... coincidence?  Maybe since we've just been using Tylenol, somehow it's not as effective?  Tried it again tonight, so we'll see....

Hope you get a good night yourself!  Do you know yet, btw, boy or girl?

[scucci1979]

that is great news! Some OT is bound to happen when los transition to one nap.  I used to give Madi 4days of one nap, then one day of two naps. Eventually the two naps phased out.
Tylenol was never effective for us. 
I don't know the sex yet. Technician claimed she couldn't tell. I plan to do a 3d so I will know for sure then.

Good luck

[aimeeL]

Last night, she STTN, too - 8-7:15, so I'm thrilled!  Got another good 2 hr 15 min nap today, so we're set for bedtime, I think...

You're right about the OT... I think I just got too confident about her transition, because her first wk seemed so good.  Her nights were long and her naps were 2+ hr.. and then we went on vacation, and I just attributed the sleep mess to her being in a new place, teeth, etc.. But I think the OT HAS been creeping in.. and before I knew it, were already in a huge downward spiral..

Anyways - here's to hoping we're on our way out now...

[aimeeL]

HELP!  I canNOT figure out this last A time!  Or heck - maybe that's not even the culprit..

Okay - so here's the update:

Sat:
6:30 - Wakeup
12:40-3:30 - Nap
8 p.m. - Bedtime (no fuss, STTN)

Sun:
7:15 a.m. - Wakeup
12:30 - 2:45 - Nap
7 p.m. - Tried for bedtime - *seemed* UT at first - laid there quietly for awhile, then started chatting, and THEN started crying.. DH did quick WIWO, finally asleep by 8 p.m.

Mon:
7 a.m. - Wakeup
12:35-2:40 - Nap
7 p.m. - Tried for bedtime - same exact thing as Sun night - no struggle going down, lay there quietly, and then alternated between crying (at which pt, DH would do WIWO) and chatting... finally asleep by 8 p.m.

I was getting so frustrated, watching her NOT SLEEP...I'm at least happy that there's not that initial screaming when I lay her down in her crib - what I was getting last wk - but this doesn't seem like too much progress, either..  *Maybe* she's UT on 4 hr 20 min A time after a 2 hr nap?  But that's almost exactly what I was doing the first wk we started 1 nap, and that's what led to the accumulated OT..!   Help!

[*Liz*]

Is she on her canines yet Aimee? That caused nothing short of chaos with everything for us  .

My other thought is that these toddlers seem to go a bit beyond a simple A time issue. This is hard to explain so bear with me  . I find the length of the morning A affects the pm A - so on days that it is longer tha pm A is shorter. And likewise if the am A is shorter (I tend to try and keep the same nap time as that seems to work better as well), then he has a little more energy to burn in the pm.

So basically J sleeps 12.5 hrs in 24 hrs these days - so will need 11 hrs awake in whatever structure (saving the remaining .5hrs for time actually nodding off etc).

So if he does 6hrs am A, A to bed is 5hrs. But if it was 5.5hrs he will likely do 5.5hrs to bed again.

Might help explain the last few days better?

[Kay Dee]

Sat:
6:30 - Wakeup
12:40-3:30 - Nap
8 p.m. - Bedtime (no fuss, STTN)

Sun:
7:15 a.m. - Wakeup
12:30 - 2:45 - Nap
7 p.m. - Tried for bedtime - *seemed* UT at first - laid there quietly for awhile, then started chatting, and THEN started crying.. DH did quick WIWO, finally asleep by 8 p.m.

Mon:
7 a.m. - Wakeup
12:35-2:40 - Nap
7 p.m. - Tried for bedtime - same exact thing as Sun night - no struggle going down, lay there quietly, and then alternated between crying (at which pt, DH would do WIWO) and chatting... finally asleep by 8 p.m.

Sounds like an 8pm bedtime might work best for her with those good naps?

[aimeeL]

Liz - She is definitely teething canines right now so I know that this is part of it... I will keep that "whole-day" thing in mind.. I get very short-sighted/near-sighted with these things.. missing-the-forest-for-the-trees like.. so that's a good reminder...

KDee - I was thinking the same thing initially! - except I do think these last few days really have been OT.. I mean, I think I put her down too early to start with, but I think it became OT..

I think I did a bit better tonight in my A time estimation.. she had another 2 hr nap, and I put her down at 4 hr 35 min.. she still lay there, babbling, staring for 20 min.. BUT then drifted off to sleep.. So I'm going to shoot for 4.75 tomorrow..