Almost 10 months, 5:30am wake ups

[castlek]

I've been posting over the last couple weeks cause of the ever earlier morning wake ups with my almost 10 month old.  I read the FAQ posting on 10/11 month sleep gone wonky and am wondering if the early wakings might be a sign we are starting the 2 to 1 transition.  Yesterday morning I tried keeping him up before his morning nap just a little longer and waking him after an hour.  His afternoon nap is already usually only 45 min.  But man he seemed really sleepy in the evening. 

He also seems hungry in the morning despite my attempts over the last couple of days to cram as much food in him as possible.  Here is what our days look like:

5:30 awake crying, bf
7:30 solids, oatmeal and 1/2 banana
9:30 nap (usually till 10:45/11:00 if I don't wake him) (yesterday extended him till 9:45)
11:00 solids, veggies, pot, meat
12:00 bf
2:00/2:30 nap for 45 min to an hour
3:15 solids, oatmeal and apple pieces
6:00 cereal milk bottle
6:45 bf
7:00 bed

So, do you agree I need to be following the 2to1 advice, ie. delaying his morning nap and keeping it short?  Delaying would mean he'd be over 4 hrs of A time.  If that is the plan then do I need to put him down earlier in the evenings?  He goes down well for all naps and sleeps very quickly.  At night it can take him 15-20 min to fall asleep.

Here is the link to my previous post for the history of his early wakings since 8 months....
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=167157.msg1888990#quickreply

[castlek]

Oh yeah, and how long do I need to stick with it to see if the changes are working? 1 or 2 weeks?  Shorter?

BTW, pot=potatoes (not marijuana

[castlek]

Help!  Today he was up at 5:10.  Despite the short naps yesterday and putting him to bed early - argh!  Which brings up another question...while we are sorting this out should I not try to lay him back down to sleep after I bf him?  Seems like that would encourage the idea of him getting that missing night sleep back too soon?  But when he is up so early then that throws the whole day off.  The other thing I thought is whether I should try some wake to sleep at 4?

[Peek-a-boo]

Before I started messing with nap time too much, I think I'd consider other factors.  You might check out this FAQ:   http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=87109.0

With naps and night sleep as is, does he seem well-rested and happy through out the day?  Or is he acting overly tired?  It's possible that he's getting enough sleep all around, you may just not love the time at which it is distributed.  I think around this age, my DD was getting a similar amount of total sleep to your LO, but we had a later bed time, so later wake up--and she was happy and well-rested. 

How late are you hoping to extend your LO's night sleep?  He's doing a solid 10.5 hours now; by this age, many LO's are only doing 11 hours or so at night in order to have enough sleep drive for two naps.  In my opinion, an 11.5-12 hour night at this age is unusual and can make it tricky to sustain two naps. 

Depending on where you are in the world, is it getting lighter earlier in the morning?  If so, that may be a factor as well.  Light is a powerful signal to the brain that it's time wake up, so even a sliver of light through the blinds can make a stirring LO think it's a good idea to fully wake. 

I think wake to sleep would definitely be worth a try, but again, you need to make sure your goal is realistic  . . .

[castlek]

I let him nap without waking him yesterday and put him down at 6 last night and this morning he was up at 4:30!    I bf him and then put him back in bed and he slept till 6. Which would maybe suggest that he does only need the 10.5 hrs at night?

I agree that at the most he needs 11 hours at night.   Before he started getting up earlier in the mornings he was doing the 11 hours easy and then playing nicely in the crib for another 30/40 minutes after that.  So at this point I would just like him to make it to 6am with a 7pm bedtime.  I don't think that is unrealistic right?

At 4:30 it is definately still dark, at 5:30 also dark but it will be light at that time very soon.

He cries in the morning but it rested and happy after he's been fed.  Generally happy throughout the day and especially happy in the evenings.

So should I be trying to get him into bed early, or work on extending his bedtime to 7:30?  Is it a really bad tactic to feed him at whatever time he wakes up (4:30 or 5:30) and then put him back in bed to sleep a while?

[katha]

Sorry to jump in here - but just wanted to to let you know im going through exactly the same thing! Its been nearly two months of 5am/5.30 wakes. My baby is 7 months now. I've just tried 3 days of putting her to bed earlier and making sure she doesn't take her first nap before 9am, and its made no difference at all! If anything, its resulted in her finding it hard to get to sleep at night as she's not quite tired enough!

She's at the high end of activity time for her age - needing about 3.5. I blackout her room and do all the things advised on here, but there's no sign of change. Really at a loss! She sleep through the night, and has done since 6 months but i'd really love to crack these early mornings....they're killing us.

Made a few posts about it on here, but as yet had no response.

Are you getting anywhere with it? Be great to share experiences and help each other if we can!

Katha x

[katha]

btw, after a 5.20 wake up this morning and 6.30 put down last night, im kinda coming around to thinking she only needs 11 hours and that i'm going to try 7pm bed so see if she can make it to 6am (that's all i want! Just no 5ams!). She's a very happy baby in the day and never any sign she's too tired or cranky as a result - may have to accept its her rhythem for now....

[Peek-a-boo]

So at this point I would just like him to make it to 6am with a 7pm bedtime.  I don't think that is unrealistic right?

It depends on your baby.  If he was doing an 11 hour night with similar naps and now time has passed and he's dropped 1/2 hour off his night sleep, it may just be because his sleep needs have dropped.

So should I be trying to get him into bed early, or work on extending his bedtime to 7:30?

  Getting him to bed earlier would only be effective if the root cause of the EW is that he is overly tired.  If you suspect that he's getting plenty of sleep and is well-rested, but you'd like to shift his wake up time, then gradually working toward a slightly later bedtime would be worth trying. 

Is it a really bad tactic to feed him at whatever time he wakes up (4:30 or 5:30) and then put him back in bed to sleep a while?

TBH, I did this with my DD.  I was so terrified of EWings that any time she woke early, I'd pop in feed her quickly and she'd go back to sleep.  If she didn't go back to sleep, I stayed with her in the dark room until it was "morning" time so that she was never exposed to light before I was willing to have her waking up in the morning.  The danger in this is that it can establish a feed there that can be hard to wean later, so you have to weigh the pros and cons. 

If you do try a later bed time it's best to move it gradually, maybe combine it with w2s in the morning and try at least 3 days or so before giving up on it. 

[castlek]

So to really throw me for a loop, I put him in bed at 7pm last night and he only woke up at 7am!  But I am not complaining...my husband has been chanting with glee all morning "we cracked the case"...I'll wait to see how things go the next nights.  He followed it up with a super nap from 10:30-12:00.  We'll see how the rest of the day develops.  At this point keeping his normal schedule he would go down to bed at 7:30 (normally at 7)...is that ok to keep him up another 1/2 hour all at once?  I think I'll just have to watch his tired cues.

[Khalam's Mama]

Having some similar issues. better last few days after pupd one day but fear we are sneaking back so gonna listen in.

[Peek-a-boo]

At this point keeping his normal schedule he would go down to bed at 7:30 (normally at 7)...is that ok to keep him up another 1/2 hour all at once?  I think I'll just have to watch his tired cues.

Yes, watch tired cues, and if he's suddenly sleeping way more it might be him getting sick or something like that.  However, if not, this could be a great opportunity to bump bed time back without risking OT, so I'd go for the full 30 minutes if you're not seeing sleepy signs.

[blitz]

i'd like to chime in too.  My DD is 7 mths, and has been sleeping through the night since she was 3 mths.  Her naps have always been a bit all over the place, sometimes 2 hrs, sometimes 40 minutes.  She used to sleep until 630/7, but for the last month has been up at 5/530.  Sometimes i feed her, and she'll go back to sleep until 6/630, but not very often.  Her trouble, is she can't always stay up for 3 hrs at a time yet, and if i don't give her a cat nap, she'd be in bed at 530!  I'd rather give her a cat nap and keep her up until 730/8, but then she is still up early and cranky!  I don't think she is getting too much daytime sleep, if it is a bad day it can be as little as 2.5 hrs for the whole day.  I am also wondering if feeding her when she wakes up is becoming accidental parenting.  My friend who has a 9 mth old ds that wakes early never feeds him before 6:30 no matter when he wakes.

[Peek-a-boo]

Blitz--in your situation, it sounds more like baby being overly tired might be the culprit.  Your LO is such a different age, you'll probably get more applicable advice if you start a fresh thread and include a few days of sample EASY routines so people have a better picture of what's going on.

[Khalam's Mama]

Oh dear after 3 days of what I thought was success after doing pu/pd we were up at 6.20 this morning and he only went to sleep at 8.30 so less than 10hrs he got! I posted a couple times but the only replies were either those with the same issues really. The most recent is
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=170031.msg1905622#msg19056220

I will be looking on here for any ideas but if anyone has a minute to peek I would be very grateful.

How is it going for you "castlek"?

[castlek]

Yesterday we got a 6:30 wake up, today at 6am.  So I need a couple more days to see if a more consistent pattern develops.  But anything starting at 6am is fine by me....just the before 6 times that were killing us.  Perhaps it was some teething problems mixed in too, cause everything seems to be going better at the moment.  Eating is much easier too.