Day 1 and naps going well - should I carry on through the night?

[pinzer78]

Just keep at it and things will improve. Over the nights his stretches of sleep got longer and longer. A week later he slept through the night! He has slept thru 3 times in two weeks, some rough nights some good ones.

Having me in the room did not mess him up for weaning off the breast, he was just glad he was not alone...I just gave him a rub or pat and said a few words and he'd go back to sleep. If that didn't work, I figured he was hungry and nursed him....then he'd go back to sleep easily...usually. 

HOWEVER, since I stopped the nap training due to his sudden unwillingness to go down(most likely due to my non consistency) and screaming the darn roof off the house (I was having a nervous breakdown form it), I AP'd naps, lying down with him in bed. WELL! I think i royally screwed up all progress we were having. He has been going down for bed acting like a crazy crazy baby, totally angry at the situation. Many night wakings...it's all bad.

So, stick to your guns and keep going with it or you'll be in my situation. Lastnight he had pretty much as many night wakings as before, but now instead of a boob, he just needs us in there touching and singing to him to calm him back to sleep. It's a nightmare.  Hubby just slept in there lastnight at the 1.30 waking as we knew he'd wake again, and he did.

I got him in the crib for a nap today, but I had to push the railing down and lean right in so I was close, then sang to him and stroked his chest.

Funny, the days that I was more aggressive with nap training, he screamed in my face all day and barely slept, but those nights he went down easy and slept through!  I feel like an awful mommy....letting this go on for longer than it should because I'm a wussy gal who can't take the screaming......

I hope it all works out well for you, and dont give up!!!!

[sarahsarika]

Thanks for the encouragement! Unfortunately I didn't receive those messages until today. I think you guys are in US or Canada?? so there's a time difference. So I thought about it all day. I knew I shouldn't go back to old habits cos then I've put her through that horrible night for nothing, but I eventually decided that she's not ready for the night training yet (and I'm just not feeling strong enough). I always said I'd wait until we'd really got the days spot on before tackling the nights, i.e. consistently managing 1 and a half to 2 hour naps twice a day. She's certainly not there yet so I made the decision to wait a bit longer. So we went back to our old night nursing ways last night and all had a good nights sleep. When I started the nap training I was really mentally ready for it, but I don't think I was properly ready for the nights. (It also doesn't help that my husband is incapeable of being consistent with my methods and doesn't get the need for consistency but that's another story!) Anyway, it seems I've confused her a bit as I couldn't get her to nap today. My mum managed to get her to sleep this morning after a failed attempt from me and this afternoon didn't work out either. We'll have to persevere tomorrow. I'm sure it'll work out though. We've done it once so we can do it again!
Your situation sounds awful (and somewhat familiar!). Maybe you're right I should have stuck with it or the inconsistency will screw things up completely, but I went back to the old ways last night so I need to stick with that for a bit now or she REALLY won't know where she stands!

I feel like an awful mommy....letting this go on for longer than it should because I'm a wussy gal who can't take the screaming

That pretty much sums it up here too! But we shouldn't feel gulity. That's just another negative emotion to add to the mix! We're trying to be great mummys but we've just had a lot of bad luck. Sounds like you should focus on the nights for now. You know they can work so will again. You can try for the naps again when you're ready to give it that consistency it needs.
Hope it gets better soon.
Hugs

[pinzer78]

Well, if you don't feel ready then don't try it. I didn't feel totally ready for any of it, but I wasn't happy with the way things were before either.

I got him back in the crib for naps, but it's not easy. He cries going in but I can soothe him...sometimes I can extend the nap sometimes not. When he starts to get crazy I know I cannot sooth him in the crib, so I just abort and shorten his A time before the next attempt.  The first nap yesterday I lied down in the crib with him, then the next one I pushed down the railing and was able to stay close....Today I did the same, then he ended turning on his side and faced the wall    He still needs me touching and singing right to sleep and I have to stay there the whole time as he wakes frequently due to an extreme OT rut we're in right now...has been for months and months.

Lastnight was  a screamfest going down, tonight no screaming but very very restless and took 45 min to fall asleep. If it's not screaming, it's the restlessness!  If I dont see any progress over the next while, I may go backwards a bit and sidecar the bed to teh crib again, and go more gradual from that point....I dunno!  He's so upset and confused still.

take care!!!

[sarahsarika]

Well done on getting him back in the crib for naps. It's still not ideal I guess with all the singing etc, but it's better than the other methods I assume you were using (we were using sling, buggy or car).
It probably wouldn't be wise to take a step backwards and sidecar the crib to the bed, surely it's just another change to confuse him?? I do sympathise though. It's so hard.
I noticed on an earlier post you said AP. Do you mean attachment parenting? I read those books when I was pregnant and it all sounded so rosy. I know it's probably not appropriate here to say too much in critisism for another approach, but I'm quite angry about the things AP told me were best for my baby, as they turned out to be the things that have caused all the problems. It seems to me you need to be super-human to manage APing. I just wondered if you felt the same?

[Shiv52]

AP ing on here means accidental parenting!!

and APOP means accidental parenting on purpose! 

How are things?

[pinzer78]

Well, AP for me means both accidental and attachment parenting.  I did the cosleeping thing and used the carrier for naps a lot. I still accidental parent his sleeps now as he still depends on us, but we're taking the slow, gradual approach as I can't handle lots of crying, even though Im there for him never leaving him alone. If I have another babe, I wouldn't mind the cosleeping for just the first couple of months until the night feeds started to slow down, then I'd transition to his/her own bed at an early age!

Naps are improving. If I get him in there before getting too tired, he barely cries at all and has a more restful sleep.  I say that, and my first nap this morning was not good...he was fighting it for some reason...hopefully number 2 will be better.

I was actually able to handle the attachment parenting better than what im dealing with now. He was so friggin happy all the time, that during his awake time I got more things done and had some time to myself as he was always happily playing on his own, just looking up at me when he wanted to see me, then back to playing. He rarely cried, only when hungry or tired or overstimulated. Now, he's really clingy and fussy and I cannot do barely anything all day long. I am hoping in time if this independent sleep thing ever works out, I'll have my happy boy back.  I at times really just want to cosleep again so he is happy all day long again.  If I ever did revert back, at least he's not a boob sleeper anymore!  

Our nights are not great now, but it's more that he doesn't want to sleep than much screaming or crying. We'll try to soothe him but just fights sleep. Very annoying.  There is improvement in that he goes down most times without much crying...sometimes just a touch is enough.  Early this morning he was not going back to sleep, then it turned into some crazy crying....Daddy had to give up after a while. I decided to nurse him. After that I held him and sang, put him back in the crib and then he slept for nearly another 2 hours until just past 7am. Whew!  

[sarahsarika]

It sounds like things are slowly improving for you, but it does sound hard! Can I ask...how old is your LO? I'm assuming that age will make a difference in all this. My LO is 9 months now and she's going through a bit of a clingy phase. We're talking about starting to tackle the nights again and working out how we're gonna do it. My husband isn't able to follow the rules and just does his own thing so my mum is going to help, which I feel really bad about! So we have to make it work this time! I'm just wondering whether her being in a clingy phase isn't going to help matters. My mum thinks that if we do decide to tackle it now then it's best if I'm not involved (apart from sometimes I'm going to have to feed her) and then she won't be screaming at me to let her suckle. It seems less cruel if I'm not in the room, but it's going to be a huge pressure on my mum. You guys managed it with you in the room didn't you? Did your LO respond better to your hubby than to you? Also, can you remember how long his sleep stretches were when you started? My LO wakes so frequently it's terrifying!!
The naps are going quite well, in that she falls asleep quite easily usually, but the last couple of days she's not been showing any tired signs which has meant her going longer between naps (between 3 and 4 hours as it should be for her age) but has only been sleeping for 30 minutes. I'm sure it's just a blip, but I wonder if it's a sign that she's not ready to do the nights. We need to get on with it soon, and put the side on the cot as she's really mobile now, almost crawling, and pulling herself up using the bars of the cot etc.
Sorry I need so much reasurrance around all this! It's like a dark cloud hanging over my head and it's all I ever think about! For that reason I need to sort it out but I'm sooo scared! She was so miserable and exhausted after that night we tried before. I know it's all for the best but it does seem so cruel!
Thanks
Sarah

[Shiv52]

Sorry thing are so rough.  I stayed in the room and my LO was actually better for me that she was for DH.  Just another perspective.  Does your LO take a dummy? 

Sorry for being dense but are you trying to keep him in the cot at night or just extend his night sleep while he is in bed with you?

[sarahsarika]

I tried dummies when she was little and she wouldn't have any of it! She has stuffed rabbit which she has just started to chew the ears of as she falls asleep for her naps so that's positive! Yes we're going to try and extend the night sleep in the cot, but she's still in the bed at the mo! Well, the cot is sidecar'd to the bed so she is used to the cot (half the night in the cot and half the night in the middle of the bed) and has her daytime naps in there as well. I think me and my mum will take it in turns. She knows my mum very well and has responded to her better for the naps than she has for me! I think she'll do the first night so hopefully LO sees that things have changed by the time I do the second night! We're going to move her into her room but sleep in there with her (eventually doing gradual withdrawal hopefully!)
Oh by the way, yesterday's naps were the best yet (there just no rhyme or reason!). She had 55 mins in the morning and 1 hr 45 mins in the afternoon!

[Shiv52]

Great news on the naps!!

SOunds like a great plan for the nights and how amazing is your mum!! IF she has a successful first night it might be worth letting her do the next one too and then you do the third.  Two nights would really help your LO get used to the new way of things before you take over! 

[sarahsarika]

Thanks I'll bear that in mind. I think she is prepared to do the first 2 nights if that will help. Yes she is amazing - I'm so lucky to have her, I don't know how I would have got through the last few months without her!

[Shiv52]

Good luck with it!!  Family support really makes a big difference!  My LO loves my mum and my sisters and I know in years to come she'll have fab relationships with them (and I'll get lots of breaks!)   

[pinzer78]

Sorry Im late to reply! My guy is 8mo and almost 2weeks at the moment. When we first started the training, I was able to soothe him back to sleep with just voice and touch, he didn't scream at me b/c he wanted the boob!    Hubby always put the babe to bed and still does and takes care of most wakings, unless the kid will not go back to sleep and just cries and cries...we then take turns trying to soothe him. We're going through a rough patch now, as his wakings have increased. The first couple of weeks were good, with a bad night here and there, but mostly good...now...not so good. We do not know what is going on! I want to take him to the doc to rule out reflux, but im not entirely sure he has it. 
When we first started, the first night his wakings were pretty much as normal as they had been, but slowly over the week they got longer....a week later he slept through the night.
If I can get him some decent rest during the day, he is much happier and easier to deal with, however, still clingy. I can't leave him alone for too long or he just fusses.  He doesn't need me to hold him all day, just have to be nearby.
I'm glad to hear you Mom is going to help you out so much....great lady!
Hope all works out ok for you.

[sarahsarika]

Hi again
Sorry to hear that the nights aren't so good again for you. I hope you're getting lots of good advice on here.

I guess it's useful for me to know that we'll probably get some regression. I'm feeling great at the moment because we've done it!!!! She has slept in her cot in her own room for the last 5 nights!! My mum slept in there with her for the first 3 nights and she was really pleased with how it went even from the first night. She's been able to settle her very quickly and easily most of the time and I fed her no more than 4 hourly. On the 4th night I tried to take over but had trouble settling her, so mum took over and she only woke twice and had 1 feed! Last night I tried again but she woke a bit more frequently and it was impossible for me to settle her without a feed. I didn't want to feed her more frequently than 4 hourly (with the aim of slowly getting her to go longer), but she just cried and cried so she had 2 feeds with just 3 hour gaps and another feed after a decent length gap. I know that in theory she doesn't need milk at night but she is used to it. I'm happy to carry on like this as she mostly went back into the cot very easily and settled quickly after feeds, but I don't know if it's a bad habit to get into. I would hope that eventually she'll sleep for longer and longer stretches and then eventually through the night, so I won't have the dilema of should I/shouldn't I feed her?, but maybe that's just wishful thinking! I wonder whether, if she expects a feed when she wakes, it might prevent her from settling herself.

That's great that your hubby takes care of most of the night wakings. Perhaps ideally that's what we should do to prevent frequent night feeds as she does settle well for my mum. It's a shame my hubby can't do it. He's willing, but not to be trusted - I know he'll just pick her up and rock her! He just can't stick to the rules because he doesn't get it and won't read the book. That's why my mum is so involved. (We all live together by the way). Anyway, I'm really very pleased with the progress we've made so maybe breaking her of the night feeds can come later. I don't know!

Hope things get easier for you soon.

[Shiv52]

Thats a great update!!!  I think as long as you are aware that the feeding in the night is a prop then it shouldn't be a big issue.  Once she's settling better you can start trying to get her to settle without feeding until then if its not bothering you, then leave it be!!  Obviously she has to learn to resettle without milk but she is doing SO well learning to go back in her cot and you know she can do it as she does it for your mum so I'd leave it a week or two and then see how you go!!

Well done on all the hard work to you and your mum!!!!