4 mo not eating enough

[ecat99]

My DD is 4 mo old. She is on a 4-hour schedule and eats ~6oz (170ml) per feed and only 2 oz (60 ml) in DF. She does not wake up during DF, does not really suck and tries to spit out the teat. 2oz is the most we can get into her. We are now doing PU/PD to teach her to sleep through the night (11pm-7am). Is that reasonable? How can I make her eat more during the day and in DF? Thank you

[Lolly]

How often is she waking at night? What happens when she wakes? The amount she is taking is a reasonable amount at a feed for a 4 month old and if she is not taking much at the DF then I would expect one feed at night still. What time do you do the DF? Have you tried a bit earlier or later to see if she will drink more?

What no teat is she on - have you tried a faster flow teat recently?

Sorry about the questions but it will help us to help you!

Laura

[ecat99]

After DF that lasts from 10:30 until ~11pm, she wakes every 45 min or so starting at 1:30 am. For a few weeks my parents were helping out at night and they fed her whenever she woke up. This is what we are trying to eliminate doing PU/PD. When she wakes, she cries. Most of the wakings we give her a dummy and she falls asleep. She spits out the dummy as she is about to fall asleep and usually falls asleep without it. We tried PU/PD without the dummy altogether, but she gets very distressed. With the dummy, she falls asleep pretty fast most of the times. We feed her at 3:30-4am and she eats 2-3oz.
We are still on slow flow teat - we keep trying to give her medium flow but she chokes and turns away from the bottle. After a few attempts she does not take the teat at all. We tried medium flow again today with the same result. We'll keep trying every couple of days to see if she learns to drink from it.

[Lolly]

If her DF is at 10.30 and she wakes at least 3 hours after it I would feed at the first waking to be honest then just re-settle after that one. If she is waking every 45 mins she could be genuinely hungry at that 1.30 wake. If she is waking at the same time every night it may be worth trying wake to sleep to see if you can break the habit.

 If you are going to use PU/PD then you will need to get rid of the dummy as it doesn't work if they are reliant on a prop. Here are some links you may find useful http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=9287.0 http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=89.0.

We got rid of my son's dummy when he was 4.5 months because he was waking for it and needed us to put it back in.

Which bottles do you use? It may be worth trying a vari-flow teat rather than a medium teat as she can control those herself.

How well is she napping in the day?

Laura

[ecat99]

Thank you for the advise.
We use Tommee Tippee bottles and will see if they come with variflow teats. During the day she is textbook baby - eats at 7, 11, 3 and 7 and naps for at least 1.5 hours (usually 2) 9-11 and 1-3, then an hour catnap at 5.
We tried PU/PD without a dummy - she arches her back at each pick up and is impossible to calm down. She screams at the top of her lungs, so that after 30-40 min her voice gets hoarse. Now I am kinda afraid to do it without the dummy.

[Lolly]

The TT closer to nature bottles do come with variflow - we used them with DD!

If she is finding PU/PD too stimulating then I wouldn't pick her up. If she is arching as you try to pick her up she is probably telling you she doesn't want to be picked up. I would soothe her in the cot with shh/pat - or if she doesn't like patting, rub her back or stroke her head instead. Rubbing their backs always works well for my two, and as they drift off I slow the rubs down and make them lighter.

It does sound as though she could be waking for the dummy or at least needing it to transition from one sleep cycle to the next (sleep cycles are about 45 mins) - it could be worth getting rid of it.

Is the 2oz at the DF a regular thing? If she is taking so little and taking a long time over it it may not be worth keeping up. Not all babies take to the DF - my two are prime examples , we just stopped doing it and waited for them to wake. Even on the vary rare time they took a decent amount they still woke again anyway so it was easier for us to get an early night and just feed when they woke.

What do you think?

Laura

[NicolleD]

My LO (also 4 months) doesn't eat much in one go because of her reflux & teething, so I give her 2 dream feeds one at 9.45 and one at 10.30, that way I can get 6oz down her in a short space of time. I also leave her in her crib now to feed because picking her up woke her up too much and she didn't eat as well. 
I used to pu/pd with the dummy but realised actually she just wanted the dummy and didnt need anything else, infact I think the pu/pd made it worse. Sometimes I shh but mostly I just give her the dummy and she goes back to sleep. With regards to getting more milk into her, I have used the info from here http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0 - its about getting over 45 minute naps but it was useful for us to in getting her to take more food. Just a thought!
Nicolle x

[ecat99]

Thanks Laura. Will get variflow tomorrow. We actually stopped DF yesterday, she woke up on her own around 11:15 and drank ~3 oz in fraction of the time, then went right back to sleep. 
Nicolle, thanks for the link. Btw, our LO used to have reflux, which started at two weeks, but it went away after a few weeks on omeprazole (losec). We stopped the meds over a month ago and it did not come back.

[Lolly]

Ok, so reflux puts a new spin on things. If the symptoms went away after a few weeks on the meds I'd say it was probably because the meds were doing their job. 4 months is a classic reflux flare up time and night wakings are very typical of reflux not being under control. I would restart the meds, and see what happens to be honest or at least discuss it with your Dr.

Laura

[ecat99]

Oh, I did not think of reflux. Although she has no reflux symptoms whatsoever. She eats and sleeps fine during the day. She also sleeps for ~4 hours from 7PM until 11PM without waking up. Then she wakes up every hour from 11pm until 6am and needs a dummy to go back to sleep. I think she is most likely dependent on the dummy to go back to sleep... But I will definitely talk to our doctor.
Btw, we tried variflow and it works. Thank you.
We also discovered another way to get more food into her - swaddling. I guess her arms and legs distract her, so if she won't eat after just two oz, we swaddle her and she finishes the bottle in no time...

[Lolly]

Glad you have found something that is working! Sounds like it could be time to get rid of the dummy if she is needing it to go back to sleep. We got rid of DS's dummy at 4.5 months for exactly that reason. We went cold turkey, it only took 3 days really, day 1 was the worst but he definitly slept more soundly after we ditched it. He still had uncontrolled reflux at the time so it didn't stop nightwakings but it did improve the quality of the sleep he did have!

Laura