Any suggestions or ideas about what this might be?

[bbandit]

My baby boy is almost 14 weeks old and he's become a pretty great sleeper.  Since about 9 or 10 weeks old, he's gone down for naps w/ pretty much zero crying and the majority of his naps have been excellent as well.  In the past week or so we've had some issues w/ waking up during the nap.  We think he needed more awake time and seemed to be headed in the right direction to getting that issue fixed.  Along w/ this though, he has become increasingly more difficult to lay down at nap time.  Every day it gets a little worse.  It started w/ a little fuss when he got on the mattress, only to stop almost instantly.  Then it turned to a little fussing that required a minute or 2 of patting/shhing.  Now, a week into it, he full out screamed and cried for almost 15 minutes even if I was patting, shhing, giving him paci, etc...He finally fell into a fitful sleep only to wake up 3 times w/ in 45 minutes.  I have tried to calm him down but it's not working.  He cries when I'm not in the room, but he continues even if I go in there.  I'm at a loss. 

He does have reflux, and I will say that sometimes the cry seems shrill.  But, I've spoken w/ his doc and he's on an appropriate dose of medication.  Plus, he has no issue laying on his back during awake time to play, so I'm hesitant to think that this could be the issue.  Anyone have any input as to what might be the problem?  We are doing about an hour and 20 minute awake time.  His night sleep is great...wakes one time at about 4 to eat and then goes straight back to bed. 

THANKS!

Trisha

[empowered mama]

hi there 

In my experience, if my LO is having a difficult time settling it usually meant the A time was off - either I put him down too early and he was upset because not tired enough, or I put him down too late and he was OT which made it hard to settle.  Perhaps you could go back to your original A time and see if that makes a difference?  If not, maybe try slowly increasing it again?  I often found that playing around with the A times would eventually resolve the issue.

hugs, I know it can be a trying thing 

[bbandit]

I think you are right.  I've been noticing that it is the biggest struggle for his first nap of the day.  I know I've read that it can almost be like a continuation of night sleep and often they aren't up very long in the a.m. b/4 that first nap.  I just don't how long is too long for that first awake time.  Do you know where it might have been addressed on the boards?

THANKS!

[empowered mama]

hmmm, I don't know that there is a specific thread regarding that.  One thing that helped me was if LO woke crying from a short nap, that usually meant he was OT and I should have scaled back on the A time.  If he woke happy and chipper, then it was UT and I should have kept him up a bit longer.  Often, the first A time is the easiest to stretch so you could try it and see if you get a long nap.

hope this helps - keep me posted!

[bbandit]

I am just at a loss.  It is getting worse and worse.  Other the fact that he can put himself to sleep, it's become so bad it's almost as if we never did any sleep training at all.  The longest he has slept today w/o major intervention is 57 minutes.  The first nap, we got about an hour and a 1/2 and that was after going in at least three times to extend it.  Second nap was HIDEOUS...about 40 minutes but he would NOT go back to sleep.  So, we got him up, did low key activity, fed him and back to bed.  That is when we got the 57 minutes out of him.  So, after this nap we played with him (all low key, realizing that since it's been a rough day he is probably overtired) and put him in bed at just around 1 hour.  He woke up at 17 minutes, and my husband has been up there for about 10 minutes trying to get him to stop crying.  I can not figure out what is going on?!?! 

This after weeks and weeks of wonderful napping, going to bed easy, etc...  I must be missing something, but I just can't figure out what?  How is he NOT supposed to be overtired if he won't sleep?  And, how can I extend his awake time if he won't sleep? 

The only thing I can think of is that he needs to have a bowel movement.  He doesn't have them but every 4 or 5 days, and I know it's about time...but it's never interfered w/ napping before.  Could this be it?  We've tried different awake times, sleep on his back, sleep on his side in the wedge (which is what we've always done), unswaddled, leaving his legs out of the swaddle b/c it seems to bother him, etc...Nothing is working. 

[empowered mama]

hey hun, so sorry things are rough right now    things will get better...

Can you post your EASY?  I know it may be a bit all over the place, but will give us a good place to take a look.

When you intervene, what do you do?  Shush/pat?  PU/PD?

Though I don't have any experience with reflux, that could be something to consider if the routine looks okay.  Have you thought about elevating the mattress? 

We'll get this sorted - hang in there!

[bbandit]

Well, BEFORE this mess started he was on about a 3 hour easy...sometimes longer b/c he took awesome naps.  Then, we started to notice the naps decreasing and upped his awake time by about 10 ish minutes.  So, theoretically, his EASY would be to wake at 7, go down at 8:15, sleep until 10 and repeat. 

But, since he's being difficult it's truly all over the place.  He took a two hour nap this morning and unfortunately I had to wake him for my girls' swim lessons.  UGH!!  Here is what his EASY looked like yesterday...

Woke up at 6:50 and ate. 

Back down at about 7:50 because he was already acting exhausted (droopy eyelids, red eyes, rubbing eyes).  He slept for 57 minutes.  Kept him up w/ some low key activity, fed him as the three hour mark approached, and then back down for a nap.  HE slept for 45 minutes.  The day goes on like this with naps varying between 37 and 45 minutes.  We never can get back up to that hour and 15 minute awake time b/c he's EXHAUSTED!!!  OUr day has pretty much been EASAES and so on, b/c he's not sleeping long enough to get us to that next feed.

I typically try pat/shh, but it seems to only work for about 20 more minutes.  I haven't done pick up/put down b/c I was told that since he wasn't at least 4 months that it probably wouldn't work.  I'm doubting that it's the reflux b/c I'm not seeing any spit up or any signs of tummy/throat distress.     

I'm sorry if this post is all over the place, but I'm in the midst of it right now...After a 2 hour nap this morning, I kept him up for an hour and 20 minutes (head hit the mattress at this time) and he woke up 47 minutes later.  I pat/shh for quite some time and then he just starts crying loudly...like an all out fit.  He wouldn't settle if i'm in there or if I'm not, so I am out here finishing this thread to catch a break for a minute.  I'm about to head back up and see if I can extend for a little longer...meanwhile my girls are going unsupervised.    It's so frustrating to have everything working so well and then slowly slip back. 

[bbandit]

So, after 30 minutes of trying to resettle and only making him cry even harder, I got him up...not sure if this was the right thing to do or not.  I'm not sure now how long I should wait for the next nap. 

Anyway, I've been looking at sample awake times for his age (14 weeks) and I'm thinking he is not awake long enough.  If he's three and 1/2 months old should he be able to do longer than an hour and 15 minutes???  I'm seeing other people with babies the same age having successful EASY schedules w/ a 1h 45m or even a 2 hour awake time.  I'm completely willing to give this a shot, but I'm not really sure about it b/c he seems so tired LONG before then.  What to do??? 

[empowered mama]

hmm, okay let's see here.  The 57 min nap sounds UT (undertired) to me.  Typically naps between 50min-1hour ended up UT for us and I've heard others say the same.  I would say since you were unable to extend the nap, that that also would be a clue of UT.  I often was able to help resettle my LO if he was OT, but if UT then there was no hope because he just wasn't tired enough to sleep longer, ykwim?

What often can happen is LOs tend to show their sleepy cues around the time they are used to going down for a nap, but in reality they need to stay awake a little longer to be tired enough for a long nap, make sense?  So what you could do is try to extend that first A again - maybe by 5-10 minutes - and do something low key and offer distractions to keep him awake just a little longer to see if that A time extension works.  Your LO very well might be able to handle higher A times so it wouldn't hurt to try?

And yes, you are right re: PU/PD - definitely not age appropriate until at least 4 months so you are doing all the right things. 

I know it's hard when things go great and then are off kilter again   Just stick with it and I can assure you your hard work will pay off 

[bbandit]

I think we might be making some progress.  Thank you for being patient w/ my ramblings.   Yesterday we had a great first nap after forcing him to stay awake a little longer than normal.  The rest of the day was awful, but I think it was a result of me putting him down too quick for nap number two.  This caused a short nap, which caused him not to get a lot of rest, which means I then kept him up TOO long considering the previous short nap, and so on and so on. 

This morning, I decided to just really observe him.  Rather than assume his fussiness at the 1 hour mark was sleepiness, I decided it was boredom, over-stimulation, etc...I laid on the floor w/ him and quietly looked at stories w/ him and waited for cues.  I didn't see any really obvious ones, but I did notice that around his eyes started to look red and a little droopy.  So, I took him to his room and put him to bed...head hit the mattress at the hour and 30 minute mark.  I'm assuming that means that by the time he actually fell asleep it was close to an hour and 40 minutes (which I believe is a more appropriate awake time for his age).  It's been an hour and 20 minutes of peaceful sleep so far, so I'm feeling optimistic that we are on the right track. 

It is difficult w/ three kids though, b/c our schedule keeps us in and out of the house, which means my baby is sure to get overtired at some point. 

Thanks again for your input.  It's really helpful to hear from others, even though I've done this three times I still sometimes feel like it's not going to work and like giving up.  I need to hear from others to keep doing what I'm doing, so thanks for the confidence boost.

[empowered mama]

This is wonderful news - great job on those naps! 

I have often been surprised by how much of a jump in A time my LO has wanted at certain points in his development.  Some days it seems like we're increasing every other day, and other times he will stay put for a while.  They are just so unpredictable 

I understand the power of supportive mothers who can relate and encourage along the way.  If I didn't have that, I would be in bad shape by now.  Stay posted and please let us know if you need further support 

[bbandit]

This boy just keeps me guessing!!     After 2 days of a great first nap, he just woke up 24 minutes into his first nap today.  So, I'm guessing that was a 20 minute jolt?  He hasn't woken from one of those in ages!  Could that mean he was too tired?  I laid him down today at the hour and a 1/2 mark.  Yesterday it was the hour and 40 minute mark.  The day before it was only an hour and 20 minutes.  I just feel like I'm grasping at straws w/ these awake times!!!

His second nap, I try to continue w/ the awake time of nearly an hour and a 1/2 but he just seems EXHAUSTED!  Fussing, droopy eyes, eyelids shutting during a quick song and rock, etc....Yesterday he only made it an hour and 10 minutes awake before his second nap and he STILL woke up at about the 40 to 45 minute mark.  He was crying, and not really awake so I know it wasn't an under tired issue. I tried and tried to resettle him, but I'm really feeling like pat/shh is starting to frustrate him quite a bit. 

Is it common to have drastically different awake times for each nap?  And, is it odd that after a good 1 1/2 to 2 hour nap, that my 14 week old could STILL only stay awake for just over an hour? 

Thanks again for your help...I'm seeing improvements, but just have some stuff that still needs sorting out. 

[empowered mama]

It is common to have different A times throughout the day.  My LO likes his first A time longest, then they continue to get shorter as the day goes on.  Some LOs like the exact opposite.  It sounds like yours might like a shorter 2nd A.  Also, it is best to typically push one A at a time and then gradually work on the rest.  Since you just recently increased his first A, I would keep the others the same until his body gets used to the new times otherwise he can get OT.

Have you tried HTTJ?  I had to do this for nearly every nap until my LO was 6 months old to help him through the jolts.  He grew out of needing it right after his 6 month birthday.  Could be worth a shot at extending those naps?

You are definitely making progress, I want to affirm that.  Hang in there - sometimes it takes baby steps 

[bbandit]

I haven't tried HTTJ yet b/c I thought he was past all of that.  We had weeks and weeks of wonderful naps, and IF he woke b/c of a jolt he would either put himself back to sleep or a pat and paci could get him right back to sleep almost instantly.  Is it likely that he have issues with jolting after going so long successfully handling them himself or w/ just a tad of assistance? 

We are on nap two w/ the same issues as previous days...41 minutes after his head hit the mattress he was awake.  His A time was almost an hour and 40 minutes b/4 this nap, which I feel was a little long but I had no choice b/c of my daughters' swim lessons.  However, he did not seem to be overtired and went to sleep easily.  Previous days we have done as short as an hour and 10 minutes or as long as an hour and a 1/2 and we seem to get the same result. 

[empowered mama]

hmmm....that very well still could be a possibility.  I honestly started having issues with the jolts around 4-5 months and it wasn't resolved until 6 months.  However, it still could also be a routine tweak.

how does he wake from those short naps?  is he playing happily in his crib, or does he wake crying?