Weaning windy babies

[munzle]

I'm looking for some advice from others who have windy babies! DS is 24wks and we started on solids a couple of weeks ago on the advice of paed/HV to try and help with sickness. He doesn't have reflux, he's just very windy and brings up lots of milk with his numerous burps. The last few days have been awful and now I'm in the position where I'm not sure whether I should go back to just giving him milk? I can't strip back my diet to see if it's something in my milk which is causing the problem, as we now have the added problem that it could be something he's eaten. Should I just keep him on baby rice rather than fruit and veggies for a while? Are there particular foods I should be avoiding? On the one hand I think that cutting back on solids isn't the answer as he needs the calories and more milk = more wind, but on the other hand, maybe the thicker contents of his stomach is helping to trap the wind in there? I'm so exhausted/demoralised. A couple of weeks ago he was at least having a good nap first thing (about 2hrs) but for the last 4 days he's had no longer than 30/40 minutes and is clearly very OT   

[munzle]

also - I am seriously considering giving up breastfeeding and trying formula but I know there'll be no going back if I do it. My theory being that it will take out all the uncertainty over what I'm eating as the formula will just be consistent. am I deluding myself? will he be just as bad with formula?

[First Time Mom]

Take it from a mom who's dd was windy and almost stopped bfing at 6 weeks (as instructed by my first doctor)- don't do it! My daughter ended up having a milk protein allergy- regular formula is cow's milk based so it would have been horrible for her, instead I cut out milk products and continued bfing her until 18 mths. Once you stop bfing you cannot go back, if you are considering doing this, I would find out exactly what your lo's digestive issues are first, so that you can know ahead of time if your lo can handle regular formula.

How do you know it's not reflux? It does sound like reflux that is possibly food related. My 10 mth ds has reflux and is on meds which makes all the difference in the world. Why not try meds to see if it makes a difference? If it is food related (and something you are eating) my first guess is it's cow's milk related (it often is).

What foods is he eating? Cereal? Some cereals are mixed with formula, I would stay away from this one in case it's the formula, I would buy the cereal without and I would mix it with water or breast milk. Also keep the foods very plain for now- no sauces or butter,  just steam or boil any veggies. Some veggies are gassier than others for los too so that could be it. And, I'd stay away from bananas for now, I find bananas can be hard on los starting solids.

Maybe post some of the foods you feed him and we can give feedback if others have had issues with their los being gassy or having more spit up with them?

[munzle]

He's not intolerant to cow's milk - I did a dairy free diet for over 2 weeks and saw no improvement, so had a day where I ate all the dairy I could find and if anything he was a bit better on that day! The reason I don't think it's reflux is that he is not uncomfortable on his back unless he has a build up of wind, then as soon as he burps he's fine on his back. He's also never been better in a car seat/bouncy chair like most reflux babies. In fact he's a nightmare in the car as he's not upright enough for the wind to come out. We did suspect reflux earlier on and tried infant gaviscon (What a pain that is when you're bf!) but it made little difference. It maybe made him slightly less sick/the sick was thicker, but he still burped lots, and for us that's the issue - I don't mind the sick, I mostly mind the interruption to his sleep.

So far he has eaten:
baby rice made with bf or formula
organix banana porridge (gluten free)
pear
apple
banana
butternut squash
swede carrot
parsnip
papaya
tried natural yesterday and it was the 1st thing he's turned his nose up at.

I think I'm going to start again today, i.e. cut back to one meal and start introducing the foods again so I can keep a food diary (for me and him!) to see if I can identify an culprits. I really don't want to stop bf. I bf dd for 11 months and loved it, but this is really getting the whole family down. DD is starting to be resentful of her little brother, dh is fed up and I am just plain exhausted.

[First Time Mom]

Don't rule out reflux, especially if he throws up or spits up lots. My ds had severe reflux from birth to 6 months (on the first medication he was still throwing up 15x a day), and he always slept flat on his back very comfortable and a car seat made no difference to him. Not all meds work the same, we had to switch to a 2nd before it helped ds.

As for the foods he's eating, that's a pretty simple diet with mostly nonirritating foods. I have read that some babies find rice cereal hard on their tummies, my ds wasn't fond, it didn't sit well with him so he only has oatmeal or barley cereal, and I would totally eliminate the bananas. I've also read that papaya is harder on their tummies but I find it odd because I've read that papaya's enzymes aid digestion, but maybe try to eliminate it to see if it makes a difference anyways.

((Hugs)) for your dd, I felt bad for my dd as I had to fuss so much with my ds in the beginning with all of his throwing up issues, I always felt the poor thing was just sitting and waiting for me to finish so she could play with me. I think it's a smart idea to start a food diary, it would really help you figure out what is at the cause of his gassiness.

[Mum-of-Two]

Just wanted to offer hugs.  DS was also very very windy from birth.  I've always said he was undiagnosed reflux as well -- undiagnosed only because I wouldn't put him through the tests to verify.  Instead what I ended up doing was exclusively pumping for a few weeks to help cut down on the wind he got when breast feeding then slowly went back to the breast.  Night time they swallow less air for some reason so I usually still fed him from the breast then but oh my oh my I would sit and cry and cry when I couldn't get him to burp... and frankly, at 16 months old, he STILL needs to burp.

As for the foods, I would suspect the fruit/veggie would make him MORE windy -- that happens to the best of us if you think about it.  I'd stick to nongasy foods or cereals if the doctor recommended anything more than BF or formula (it is true some of them cause constipation and only make it worse0.  And unless you're ready to try some of the sensitive formulas, I would imagine those won't be any better than your breast milk until you've pinpointed exactly what is causing the wind first.  Could be a sensitivity to something, could be swallowing air.  Keep BFing through the investigation if you can just so you don't switch and end up feeling bad about it.

I am certainly no expert though, just got through with my son the best we could and if there is any silver lining here it does get better with age -- maybe not as quickly as you'd like -- but it does.

Big hugs!!

[munzle]

Thanks Jill. It helps to hear from someone who's been there, although not so encouraging to know that you're still suffering from a windy LO  I can get DS to burp (infacol and gripe water help) but the problem is that sometimes there's so much of it that he's still burping 2 hrs after a feed. I can imagine your frustration in the middle of the night. We had a particularly bad night last night with half an hour of screaming followed by lots of wind (bottom type) and it's so frustrating. Did you do the pumping because the bottles have a slower flow? I used to do that for the 1st feed in the morning when I had lots of milk, but some days he had just as much wind with the bottle so I presumed it was my milk rather than the mode of delivery, although I do think I've got an overactive letdown. It's all just a guessing game isn't it - that's partly what's so frustrating. Did you manage to stick to EASY at all? We really struggle - yesterday he had 15 minute catnaps here and there 

First time mom - that's interesting what you say about reflux. was your ds losing weight? Are the tests quite invasive? One thing that makes me quite hesitant is that for a lot of the time he's quite happy and content and is clearly developing well. He's also gaining weight - more slowly than my daughter did and he has dropped down a line, but nothing that the HV seems worried about. Did he burp a lot? He never brings up whole feeds - prob half an ounce at most each time but some days he's sick every time he burps. Can reflux sometimes get worse with solids? Sorry for all the questions. My GP says she will refer us to a paed if we want, but I think I'd convinced myself that it wasn't reflux.

[First Time Mom]

Ds was extremely windy and would bring up lots of milk after each feed and even hours after a feed. We had to watch the way we carried him, held him, etc., because any added pressure on his tummy would cause him to bring up his milk. He was a happy baby (not the norm- reflux babies are in pain but ds never was bothered by it). He gained weight well and so our ped said he was a "happy spitter" and not to medicate. But then from mth 3-4 he gained zero ounces because he threw up so much so ped put him on one med and we had him on it for 8 weeks. On it he threw up 15x a day so we took him off but then he threw up even more so ped switched meds and at 6 mths he stopped throwing up. We tried weaning him a month ago as ped suggested, but he immediately started to fuss while bfing and had nws with screaming for an hour straight and curling up his body. Did this for 3 days so we put him back on the meds and he immediately stopped fussing and sttn again. His throw up reflux turned into silent reflux- with the solids the food is heavier vs just liquid so it would come part way up and he'd swallow. His med is weight sensitive and I can tell when we have to get his weight checked as he will suddenly start to get windy and burby even an hour after his food and I can hear him fluxing and swallowing. Our ped didn't do any tests- the test was trying the meds and if it stopped then we knew it was reflux, and that was the case.

[Mum-of-Two]

We also had a spitter but he rarely or never brought up a full feed.  We were all covered in it as the day moved on though and also had to watch how we held him and bounced him.  He gained VERY well and was on all the high ends of the curve which is why our Pediatrician told us he was a messy baby but not a sick baby.  He was happy during the day as well, we just had to be super careful at night.

Yes on the pumping question, he swallowed less air.  I was never able to get him to burp mid-feed because he would cry so much and just swallow more air so the bottle just came as a stress reliever at some point.  I got lucky being able to pump, I'm not even sure how or when I found the time but it got us through a rough patch.

Naps, to be really honest, I started napping him on his tummy earlier than recommended.  I figured nap time I could keep an eye on him (he was still napping on the main floor not up in his crib).  He slept SO WELL on his tummy, like the kind of nap where I'd have to wake him LOL.  At night I would sleep him swaddled on his back still just for all the safety reasons.  When he got a little bigger he was a swing napper/crib night sleeper.

So could I keep him on EASY?  Yes, but not with the sleep training until he was much older.  Also, we were on 3 hour EASY for a LONG time.  He was never able to eat enough to last 4 hours without being sick so I just did the 3 hour eat times and it helped a lot.  Eventually the naps got a little different than the traditional 3 hour EASY as his sleep needs decreased but he still ate every 3 hours.

Once he was sitting up on his own things got better -- you'll hear that from reflux babies too.  He could burp on his own better, plus he was napping in the swing then so our days weren't bad.  We had a few nights though where he'd be unconsolable and his tummy would be rock hard until he could pass the wind.  Ugh, those were the worst.  He eats so well now, more than his 4 year old sister LOL.  I am still careful with spicey or red sauces and I recently found melon didn't do well in his tummy... but its not a burden anymore if that makes sense.  He's a happy kid.

[munzle]

Jill - I could have written some of that post. Especially us getting more and more covered with baby sick as the day goes on, and also the crying mid-feed. I have given up on that now too - feeding in public was just dreadful, whereas with dd I had no problems feeding in public at all. Maybe part of the problem is that he is a greedy boy and guzzles it a lot quicker than she did. Or maybe your let-down can be quicker with subsequent babies? I've never found anyone that can answer that question for me. We also let him nap on his stomach. At night I let him fall asleep on his front, then roll him over after half an hour. Still, if he has wind, he'll still wake up. I am managing to keep him on 4hr EASY but it goes wrong so often if he wakes after 40 minutes in that 1st nap - like this morning 
Yesterday was a dream day - 2x2hr naps plus a catnap. First time ever. And I'd eaten a really bland diet (and was starving!) It's going to be so hard trying to pinpoint what it is that upsets him.

[First Time Mom]

I know my letdown was a lot quicker with ds than with dd, and I have a much greater supply too. Sometimes los with reflux will want to nurse more often as the milk coats their throats and it temporarily fells better, but los can also reflux while feeding (my ds did) and this can cause them to pull off and cry often.

Have you posted on the reflux board, or checked the information there? It might help you determine if reflux is the cause.

[munzle]

I think I will post on that board - thanks for all your help/advice. Am also going to book appt with GP for next week to see if she'll make a referral. Thanks for all your help/advice.