Author Topic: natural sugars causing upset stomach?  (Read 4584 times)

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Offline firsttimemummy

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natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« on: July 16, 2010, 07:15:22 am »
After waiting the full 12 weeks for our paed appointment I still have lots of questions!! Basically we knew cold cows milk gives him a really mucousy nose (and possibly leads to ear infections); carrots, orange juice, kiwis and soya give him a really red, sore bottom (wherever the poo touches his skin); there are also other things that give him almost constant loose bowel movements (that we can't figure out). He has had a few antibiotics as a baby which I know can upset the gut for a while .

The doctor (apparently she talks to the consultant afterwards to make the final decision) said that is sounded like toddler diarrhea(!?!) which affects some children and they usually outgrow it. She kept asking how often he got a red bottom and we tried to explain that it depended on what we were feeding him!  We told her about family history of wheat and our wonder if it was partly that.  She decided that he had no allergy (which we know, it's just intolerences) and wants to test for lactose intolerence (to confirm the only thing we know!!) and that while others may test for other food groups, with a blood test, she doesn't normally (not sure why!).  We had really wanted the referral so that we could find out what other foods are upsetting him - have tried illiminating various foods and kept food diary but still unsure of most food problems. She said if lactose intolerence is confirmed we will then get referred to dietician (Which will take ages, I suppose!!).

Now - onto my actual question!!  She mentioned something about sugars may cause upset (ie the orange juice) and it being related to lactose intolerence.  Could it be that after the antibiotics his gut isn't working very well and he is getting too much sugar? We make a lot of his food and don't add any sugar, but he does eat a lot of fruit, etc (he drinks rice milk as soya upset his tummy too - I mentioned I was concerned about FSA advising against giving it to children but she didn't give me an answer!!!).  Are carrots something that would cause problems (suppose they are sweet, so does that mean they have lots of natural sugars?).  Could someone give me a rough idea of what other veggies are high in sugar (suppose all fruit is?). 

Has anyone else experienced this problem with sugars and how did they get back to normal? He is okay with yogurt and I try to give him one every day (easy yo plain, that I make myself - well, from the packet!!).  I remember reading someone's post about yeast or sugar or something but can't remember what it said!

Really would appreciate some input! Still waiting for the consultant letter detailing their final decision....  :o

L x Having a bw break from 1 Feb 2012 - if you want to get in touch please send me a pm.  I may not be here but you are all in my thoughts xxxx (probably be back some time)

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Offline ireneee

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2010, 10:40:29 am »
Hiya,

How old is your LO?

My dietician told me to try my LO on oat milk, you can get it calcium enriched. Maybe you want to check as you mention wheat (is this a gluten thing - forgive my ignorance on this one!). So far, I haven't tried oat milk as we are still on neocate but it is something I will have to tackle soon!

About your question about sugar...
One of my friends (adult) suffers from Candida which is too much yeast in her gut so she has to avoid a lot of sugar. This includes fruits as the natural sugars can also feed the yeast and lead to bloating and general upset. I know she also has a lactose or dairy intolerance. The list of foods to avoid is quite long so you would definitely need to make sure if this is what LO has and speak to a dietician.
I bought her a cookbook for candida sufferers as a present - I can't remember what it was called but I am sure that you could have a look / ask someone who works in a health food shop or in your library.

Sorry I can't give you more specific info, this isn't really something I have had to deal with for my LO.

Big hugs and hope this helps in some way...



Offline deb

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2010, 11:01:06 am »
Candida is my first thought as well. And fructose - the sugar in fruits - and lactose are two of the biggest culprits in my house for causing not only tummy troubles in my girls but even behavioral things, so here in the States where EVERYTHING in the stores is sweetened with High Fructose Corn Syrup, it really is hard to avoid it without a lot of searching and scratch-cooking.

I'd go VERY VERY easy on the fruits, and when you give juice you can dilute it, even more than 50% strength. When Josie was small, we would take some regular fruit juice, maybe 1/2" (a bit more than 1cm) in the bottom of a half-gallon (abt 2 liter) jug and top off with water and she was fine with that. To her, that was "juice." Even now when the girls have juice boxes, more than one sends them around the bend.

I'd not only continue with the yogurt since he can tolerate it (the friendly bacteria/probiotics pre-digest some of the sugar and milk protein, so some people who can't handle straight milk do fine with yogurt) but even look into purchasing other probiotics as well to help balance out the intestinal flora. Any time he's on antibiotics, give throughout the course to help with digestion, and then for at least a week afterward; we take them daily here. Definitely also limit sugars and starches, even natural ones, as they feed the internal yeast that already lives in the gut naturally. It always kills me how much sugar the commercial yogurts add, even the organic yogurt; sort of defeats the purpose of balancing the gut, if you're giving it probiotics but feeding the yeast at the same time. ::)

And thanks for the reminder that I have a gallon of milk in the fridge to make yogurt with - since we go thru a gallon of yogurt a week, it saves us a LOT of money to make our own!

Offline firsttimemummy

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2010, 11:41:09 am »
Thanks a lot, really appreciate it.  The doctor had asked how he is with Calpol as that has fructose in it, so have just been looking at fructose intolerence (as well as candida) and a lot of the foods seem to be things he has trouble with (either all the time or sometimes). It is starting to seem like it could be this so hopefully we can restrict the main problem foods and try to boost his natural bacteria, etc. ....  We had an initial appointment with the dietician (when we thought it was just cows milk issues) so may get back in touch with her directly as she said we could.  Finally starting to feel hope it on the horizon ... :)
L x Having a bw break from 1 Feb 2012 - if you want to get in touch please send me a pm.  I may not be here but you are all in my thoughts xxxx (probably be back some time)

still happily married, just not counting!

Offline firsttimemummy

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2010, 11:42:33 am »
forgot to ask - do you know any good websites for more information as I am having trouble finding a decent one, to give me guidelines until we get proper advice!?? ???
L x Having a bw break from 1 Feb 2012 - if you want to get in touch please send me a pm.  I may not be here but you are all in my thoughts xxxx (probably be back some time)

still happily married, just not counting!

Offline Mashi

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2010, 11:58:17 am »
After waiting the full 12 weeks for our paed appointment I still have lots of questions!! Basically we knew cold cows milk gives him a really mucousy nose (and possibly leads to ear infections); carrots, orange juice, kiwis and soya give him a really red, sore bottom (wherever the poo touches his skin); there are also other things that give him almost constant loose bowel movements (that we can't figure out). He has had a few antibiotics as a baby which I know can upset the gut for a while .

The doctor (apparently she talks to the consultant afterwards to make the final decision) said that is sounded like toddler diarrhea(!?!) which affects some children and they usually outgrow it. She kept asking how often he got a red bottom and we tried to explain that it depended on what we were feeding him!

It does sound like the same thing to me.  My LO does get this when he eats a kiwi or more than half of an orange. Both are VERY high in vitamin C which also can cause diarrhea and tummy upset, big time!  There are loads of sugars in fruit, and though I agree with what others have said above, I don't necessarily agree that it is any sort of intolerance or reaction that is abnormal or that it has to be somethign that needs a name, iyswim.  A toddler still has a tiny body and immature digestive system and some are still taking their time getting used to different foods.  I would cut back on the fruit, at the very least, and if he eats enough veggies then just cut the fruit out altogether and let him eat veggies as his produce for a while.  

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We told her about family history of wheat and our wonder if it was partly that.  She decided that he had no allergy (which we know, it's just intolerences) and wants to test for lactose intolerence (to confirm the only thing we know!!)

Just to be pedantic here (!) saying it is "just" intolerances is not really correct, as it implies that it is not as "serious" as an allergy. This belief is one of the main reasons most doctors use the blanket term "milk allergy" when about 50% of milk allergic kids are actually milk intolerant - my own pead is terrified of using the term "milk intolerant" with a parent because many people think that means that a bit won't harm them, that if they continually expose their child to it that they will build up tolerances, and so on. And this is not correct.  Not at all.  An allergy is a reaction by the immune system - the body recognizes the substance as foreign and reacts.  An intolerance is an inability of the digestive system (stomach, intestines, etc) to break down substances and process them properly.  An intolerance that is ignored can lead to some very serious digestive system troubles if the person is eating even small amounts of the substance they are intolerant to.  

You mentioned your LO gets a runny nose with milk but that you are testing for lactose intolerance - will your paed not do a clinical examination to see what the possibilities of milk allergy/intolerance is? Especially if you say soy poses an issue as well it really does seem like MSPI might be a huge part of the problem.

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and that while others may test for other food groups, with a blood test, she doesn't normally (not sure why!).

Not sure how old your LO is but in the UK most doctors will NOT test for any food allergies unless there is a need to know if there are some serious ones (ie/nut).  One of the reasons is because the testing itself can be horrible and traumatic for the child and there is not so much need to put them through that it can be diagnosed clinically -  such as by an elimination diet.    IN North America there tends to be more of a reason for testing kids but it seems to just be the difference between an insurance based system and a gov't based system.

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We had really wanted the referral so that we could find out what other foods are upsetting him - have tried illiminating various foods and kept food diary but still unsure of most food problems.
 I can see where you are coming from with this, but it's not really something that you'll get from a consultant paed  :-\  Truly the best way to approach it if you are sure there are more foods than the one you mentioned is to cut back to a bare bones diet for a few days of things you know are safe. Then follow the 3-5 day rule and introduce new foods one at a time as you do with weaning a baby - meaning only ONE new food every 3-5 days and watching for reactions.  


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She said if lactose intolerence is confirmed we will then get referred to dietician (Which will take ages, I suppose!!).
It might, or it might not - our referral was pretty quick, for instance but others wait ages. Depends on your area :(  You might want to have a read through this board though with some other BWers experiences with seeing the dietician as it's not necessarily what you want it to be - there have been a lot of us, myself included, who have left the dietician so let down, not realising ahead of time what the purpose of it was.  
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 12:00:02 pm by Mashi »

Offline deb

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2010, 12:07:56 pm »
If you're interested in websites you can Google "candida diet" for some hits. Here's one site: http://www.holistichelp.net/candida-diet.html. They link to a more specific page which is connected to a powerful probiotic (I've used it and liked it but I keep forgetting to take it!  :-[) that does go on about how their product is superior to other anti-fungal regimens, but it does go into some detail about those regimens so at least it's informative in that regard: http://www.candidasupport.org/RESOURCES/comparing-candida-products/?gclid=CMSnoOaA8KICFdID5Qod0ClLmA

Offline firsttimemummy

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2010, 12:09:28 pm »
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My LO does get this when he eats a kiwi or more than half of an orange. Both are VERY high in vitamin C which also can cause diarrhea and tummy upset, big time!  There are loads of sugars in fruit, and though I agree with what others have said above, I don't necessarily agree that it is any sort of intolerance or reaction that is abnormal or that it has to be somethign that needs a name, iyswim.  A toddler still has a tiny body and immature digestive system and some are still taking their time getting used to different foods.

You could well be right - apparently my husband had problems with carrots and orange juice until he was around 2, so maybe he has just inherited his sensitive stomach.  

I know what you mean about the intolerence/allergy thing - what I meant was that at least it't not a problem which could cause anaphalaxic shock or anything, but as I have cold cows milk intolerence (never figured out if that means lactose intolerence, etc) I understand how horrible they are!

DS is 18 months old.  Will try cutting back on sugars and see what happens. Hopefully, like my husband DS will soon be able to eat everything!!
L x Having a bw break from 1 Feb 2012 - if you want to get in touch please send me a pm.  I may not be here but you are all in my thoughts xxxx (probably be back some time)

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Offline firsttimemummy

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2010, 12:11:24 pm »
My friend is a newly-qualified dietician so I will pick her brains about all this too.  I know my friend went to the dietician and wasn't that impressed so wont hold all my hopes out on it either, but hopefully if I go with the right questions I may get some answers ...
L x Having a bw break from 1 Feb 2012 - if you want to get in touch please send me a pm.  I may not be here but you are all in my thoughts xxxx (probably be back some time)

still happily married, just not counting!

Offline Mashi

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2010, 12:50:00 pm »
Well the dietician's job is to make sure he is getting the right nutrition in his diet - not to diagnose food allergies or decide which foods are giving him the problems. I think that's where we all go in with high hopes and are let down. For instance if he is diagnosed lactose intolerant (meaning he can't have milk sugar) then she will give you a list of foods to avoid, foods that you can substitute or products you can use that are lactose free and tell you to make sure that despite his lactose intolerance he still gets his needed calcium - and then she will tell you how much that is, and ways of getting it. But that will really be it.

Offline firsttimemummy

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2010, 17:54:44 pm »
That makes sense!
L x Having a bw break from 1 Feb 2012 - if you want to get in touch please send me a pm.  I may not be here but you are all in my thoughts xxxx (probably be back some time)

still happily married, just not counting!

Offline Edesanja

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2010, 02:40:51 am »
I can't believe how similar your situation is to what ours was when DD was younger! I've looked for my posts about it but can't find them at the mo.
She was also MPI and also had a terrible nappy rash that was raw and bleeding from when she started on solids at 6months till we solved the problem at 13months. I also thought it was related to food she was eating - and it seemed that fruit especially made it worse. We limited her diet majorly in an effort to keep the blisters from getting worse. When I took her to the GP I was told explicitly multiple times that it wasn't thrush (there were no white bits in it he said ::). Our baby nurse and paed we got referred to at the hospital just said it was a normal rash, but it was hideous, painful and just never ever went away. Long story short is that it was thrush. So annoying since we were hunting high and low for the problem and a solution. When people would mention thrush, I'd say no, the GP, baby nurse and  hospital paed ALL said it wasn't::) Grr!!!!!!

After 7 long months, I treated her for thrush (cider vinegar in the bath and at nappy changes, antifungal cream, giving her probiotics, restricting sugar and fruit for awhile) and it cleared up in about a week or 10 days. A miracle considering that it was a relatively easy fix (though candida is a big pain in the neck and can be hard to stop the overgrowth).
Gotta go feed DS so not much time now, but maybe that will be helpful to you?
Jenny - mama to



Offline firsttimemummy

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2010, 06:45:39 am »
Thanks - fortuntely for DS his bottom doesn't stay red for long and has never blistered and clears up within a couple of days.  Spoke to my dietician friend online last night and she suggested giving him Yakult (if he is okay with them, as she thinks they may contain cows milk - I think he will be as I have taken them okay in the past). 

What were the main culprits you found to keep out of your LOs diet?
L x Having a bw break from 1 Feb 2012 - if you want to get in touch please send me a pm.  I may not be here but you are all in my thoughts xxxx (probably be back some time)

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Offline Mashi

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2010, 09:53:40 am »
Yakult does have cow's milk in it and it is VERY high in sugar.

Offline Edesanja

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Re: natural sugars causing upset stomach?
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2010, 09:56:52 am »
You can get dairy free probiotics. No idea what brands though where you are
Jenny - mama to