tantrums at bedtime

[wonderwoman_001]

not sure if this is the right place for this but....

my 20 mth dd has started throwing major tantrums at bedtime, I know that she's hit a stage of gaining more independence and is very frustrated that she she can't be properly understood language wise and although I am confident handling it during the rest of the day I'm not sure what to do at bedtime. She wants things done in a very particular way which i don't fully understand and then she gets over tired and very upset when I leave. I don't know how much or long I should stay with her or if I need to do something differently.

Any thoughts?

[Roseii]

Might be worth posting your routine

Is she teething?

xxx

[wonderwoman_001]

thanks.

slightly out of whack at the mo after a holiday but this started before we went away last week, so her routine then was up at 8.00/8.30, nap at 1.30/2.00 for 2 hrs, bed at 7.30/8.00. Currently it's up 9/9.30 nap at 1.30/2 bed aiming at 7.30/8 but sometimes not asleep til 9

teething is poss but my overall assessment is it's developmental rather than pain related due to her behaviour throughout the day.

she's textbook/spirited

xx

[Roseii]

With her new routine, is she still taking a 2 hour nap? If so, her day is very very short, even before your hol it was generally less than 12 hours long wasn't it?
My DD is a bit older but even at 20.5m her day would be about 12.5-13 hours in total, i.e up at 6.30am, 2 hour nap, sleep at 7.30am...

Perhaps your DD is under-tired when you are putting her down, hence the tantrums? Is she high sleep needs do you think?

xxx

[momtonb&ab]

Perhaps your DD is under-tired when you are putting her down, hence the tantrums

i was thinking the same thing.   usually a 12 hour day (including the 2 hour nap) and approximately a 12 hour night would be average for most little ones at this age.   it could be that she is UT and not ready for bed, but doesn't know how to tell you that.  then because of being frustrated and the tantrums, the window is missed and you get OT fast. 

could you start waking her back at 8am like before and aim for an 8am to 8pm day?  or if you want a 7:30pm bedtime, a 7:30 to 7:30 day?

[wonderwoman_001]

Good questions, I think before the hol it was mostly 8am-8pm including the nap then over the week long break she only had 1 afternoon nap over the entire week and then had very late nights so ended up seriously OT. So I'm inclined to think that as she's recovering her sleep now perhaps yes, I'm putting her to bed too early and should wake her up at 8 again and get her back into her routine that way.

If she still has a tantrum when I put her to bed (as she was before the holiday and as she has been doing during the daytime) how should I handle it? Or better, avoid it? I've been finding giving her lots of warning about the next thing has really helped during the day to avoid tantrums as I notice it was transition times that were triggering them. If a tantrum does kick off during the day I say "I'm just gonna stay here until you calm down" but if I do that at night I end up in the room for ages as she kicks off very time I walk out the door. Should I just leave and stay out of the room??!?

[~*Nicole*~]

I have found that when DD starts this (every so often we have blips--currently having one now as routine has been off--b/c of routine changes, lack of naps, visiting people, etc.) that being very matter of fact, giving her a choice, and letting her know how I will be handling things helps get us back on track quickest. Not sure if your DD is verbal or not, but you can probably do something similar to me if you go by her body language/behavior even if she is not that verbal. But if she is she can voice her choice. I have started saying "It's bedtime now, you can lay down and have mommy tuck you in all snuggled and cozy...or I can just stand you in the crib and leave." She has generally chosen to lay down and be tucked in properly. The reason for the "sterness" is that she is playing me. Suddenly at bedtime it's, "one more story" "hold me a little bit" " I'm hungry" "I'm thirsty" etc. etc. anything to stall. So by telling her that I will tuck her in the way I always do if she lays down.....or not if she doesn't....seems to have given some of the control back to me. Then I know that I can do a wi/wo if I HAVE to b/c I know she CAN lay herself down and get comfortable and fall asleep. (I can always sneak in later to check on her/tuck her in better once she's asleep).

So my thoughts are, first, right your routine so you know she's not UT or OT. Then once that's settled into place, TELL her that you aren't going to be staying with her forever before bed. It will be ONE story, ONE hug and into bed (or whatever YOUR bedtime routine ritual is) she can either choose to have it go smoothly or not so smoothly herself and you can do a wi/wo type thing if you have to.

[wonderwoman_001]

Thanks Nicole, I completely relate to that, that's exactly what my dd is doing and y'day when I employed that tactic it was very effective, a little complaint but quickly quieting down and off to sleep.

HOWEVER, right now I've done it for her afternoon nap and she's gone into full blown tantrum mode, she's gone through crying out for various things she wants (including wanting her wellies to cuddle in bed!?!) to in the end just wanting me and she's been properly screaming and gone from angry to sounding distressed and plaintiff and I'm finding it very difficult to stay out of the room. My concern is that with daytime tantrum advice it's all "stay with them because it's frightening for them" so, to be blunt, am I doing her damage by leaving her alone??

Having said all that she has now calmed down a bit and there is some chatting among the whimpering but I'm still concerned as to whether or not I'm doing the right thing

[~*Nicole*~]

I think as long as you follow the guidelines in wi/wo where you DO go in when she is sounding distressed and you are providing your presence to reassure her that you are there while she is dealing with this but that you aren't going to do every thing she requests and that you follow a consistent routine she should recognize that you will be THERE for her if there is a problem, but that she CAN handle bedtime independently. I think it's more about not-engaging her and giving over that control of it. So when you go in, not taking her out and just repeating your sleep phrase and then leaving and repeating until she falls asleep.

I'll be honest with you. I suck at doing wi/wo the right way. I get flustered and she tries to climb out when she sees me and I'm afraid she'll hurt herself so I end up picking her up, then I have to RE-lay her down and tuck her in which she protests against and it ends up being a whole production, so I need to listen to my own advice!

[Roseii]

(((hugs))) It is SO hard, I am really really stumped right now, things going from bad to worse here, so just wanted to offer hugs and support and I totally agree with Nicole, WIWO done properly isn't going to do any damage, it is deffo not CIO.

xxx

[wonderwoman_001]

Thanks ladies, so helpful and thanks so much for the moral support! Still feeling a bit bad that I clearly did CIO y'day naptime but she was fine at bedtime and naptime today (when I say fine I mean, a bit of a complaint and then either dropping off or chatting quietly to herself about Charlie & Lola!)

[~*Nicole*~]

We all need moral support when these things happen! I am starting to dread taking DD up for naps and bedtime as she is getting ridiculous with her fighting it!

[wonderwoman_001]

I know the feeling, having another tricky one, she's now started banging her head against the cot, what do I do with that??

[~*Nicole*~]

Ignore it as long as she isn't bruising herself or anything like that. Some LOs bang their heads to self soothe actually. She may be doing that OR trying to get attention. Some LOs do it during temper tantrums and as long as they really aren't injuring itself it should subside if not much attention is made. If you're concerned that she is hurting herself, then I am not sure what else to suggest! I'm sorry.

[wonderwoman_001]

Great thanks! xx