15 month old NW's - Help needed!

[Natalie79]

Right, where to begin........

My DS has taken to having my hand on his back to go to sleep at night (he will sit/stand up if my hand isn't there), cry/scream if I leave the room before he is asleep and also wakes up during the night (anything from 12midnight onwards) and will only resettle if he has milk (I give him 2oz only and then have to stay with him again until he is asleep). I work 3 days a week which means I'm exhausted by the time I get there and really need some help/advice 

He doesn't have a dummy or comforter either as previous to this I could leave him awake in his cot and he would fall asleep on his own.

I don't know whether it is down to an illness he had about 4 weeks ago and AP may be the cause as he would fall asleep in our arms due to him being so poorly, SA, teething (his first top molars have now broken through, although not fully, and his 3rd bottom tooth is just coming through) or if he isn't getting enough food (due to him wanting his milk during the night)

His normal routine would be the following:

6.30/7am  Wake and milk
8/8.30am  Breakfast (porridge and yoghurt)
10.30  Snack (cheese, cucumber, fruit)
11/11.30am Nap 1hr30mins to 2hrs
12.30/1pm Lunch (hot meal, yoghurt, fruit)
3.30pm Snack (biscuit, fruit, raisins)
6pm Dinner (hot meal and dessert)
6.45pm Bath
7/7.30pm Milk and Bed (normally asleep by 7.30pm although sometimes not until 8pm)

Due to him still being tired when he wakes in the morning, he's recently had his naps at 9.30/10am. He is at nursery two days a week and we're lucky if he manages an hours nap there, so I suppose that could be an added problem.

Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

From a desperate Mummy!!   

[*Becky*]

Hi there,
Ok there seems to be a lot going on here...let's see if we can help.
Firstly IMO you need to drop the milk in the night. 2oz is nothing, he does not need it and it is causing stress so time for it to go. That will mean you needing to do some sleep training and yes it will be tough at first but so worth it.
Secondly I think that first nap needs to be pushed back a little. If he is waking at 6.30/7am he should be able to manage until around 12pm. If he does a 2 hour nap then bedtime could be 7pm and any less I would aim for a slightly earlier bedtime particularly if he needs some wind down time. That last A is very long for his age and probably causing some OT issues which will be contributing to the difficulty settling and the NWings. If he is still struggling then you may need to think about going back to 2 naps. When did he switch to one nap? You may find that he is getting OT from the nursery days and some mums do 2 naps on the days at home to help with this.
Is he teething? This can make them more prone to OT and also would give you issues with SA.
Lots of questions so will wait to hear from you x

[Natalie79]

Thanks 'henry1' and your right, there does seem to be loads going on.

I def agree about getting rid of his 2oz bottle when he wakes during the night, but I've been so tired, I've taken the easy route, but must now get my act together and stop it. What do you recommend for the sleep training part?

With regard to his nap, should I stretch it out until 12ish even if he's been up during the night? He had an early nap today and I did try an afternoon one, but he really wasn't having any of it, even though he was rubbing his eyes loads and would lay calmly with my hand on his back. Started crying as soon as I left!

He's been on one nap for about a month or so now, but I def think an afternoon one would suit him. Would it be better for a shorter one in the morning and then hope for a longer one later on?

Yes, he is teething, although doesn't seem to be suffering too much with them. It's his next set of bottom teeth that are just breaking through and have been giving calpol before bed and then if he wakes during the night.

Wednesday night he woke at 11.30pm, had his medication and milk and went through until 7.45am. Last night he woke at 2.30pm, did the same as previous night and he woke this morning at 6.30am. Other mornings its been 4.30am!

[*Becky*]

yes teeth can be a nightmare as regards sleep. I found with my ds that we had to go back to 2 naps now and again to cope!
For the milk i would just stop cold turkey. Is he an independent sleeper - does he go down for naps and bedtime ok? if so I would try WIWO. I can send you a link with information on it if you would like. It will be hard at first but it will be so worth it...
I think if you have had NWings or an early start and he is tired there is little point pushing him till 12pm as he will likely get OT. What i did was to do a 20 min nap in the morning and then a longer one later in the day. If he is really tired you could do slightly longer but I found with DS that if he slept too long in the morning we could never get him down in the afternoon.
How does that sound? I see you are in kent...whereabouts?
bx

[Natalie79]

When I put DS down for a nap, he moans/cries on and off for about 10mins and then goes off(thats if I catch him at the right time) and at bedtime he goes off ok, but only with my hand on his back. Again it normally takes about 10mins. I know he can settle himself as he does it for his nap, but bedtime seems to be a totally different story. I would be really grateful for the link on WIWO 

I think going back to a 2 nap day does sound good and funnily enough, he had half hour nap on Sat morning (he woke himself) and then half hour in the car later on and that night he slept right through from 7.30pm until 7am!

I do worry that if I wake him after half hour he won't have an afternoon nap??

I'm about 15mins from Maidstone, a place called Holborough, next to Snodland.

Thanks again 

[*Becky*]

tbh I found this age really hard as DS was not quite ready for one nap but fought two. We usually did the short am in the buggy or car on the way out and then did the longer pm in his cot. If you find that you just cannot get him down for the pm then you may just have to go for one but we did the 20 min am for a good 6 weeks before we had to do one. will send you the link on wiwo - just ask if you have any questions.
bx

[*Becky*]

here you go x
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0

[Natalie79]

Thanks, I'll keep you posted with regard to progress.

DS is at my mums today and have asked her to see if she can get him down for two naps if possible! Fingers crossed.

[babybarr]

I would also suggest a much earlier bedtime.  So if he wakes from his nap at 1.30pm bed is no later than 6.30pm if it''s less than a 2hr nap then it probably needs to be 6pm.  At 15mths he has a longer afternoon than my 25mth old.

[Natalie79]

I will give anything a go.

He wouldn't go down for a second nap yesterday and was up at 1am!

If I put DS down earlier for bed, will he then wake up earlier than his normal 6.30/7am? His average sleep time is about 10.5 to 11hrs a night (including the NW).

[Natalie79]

I also meant to ask, with regard to getting rid of the 2oz, should I offer DS water instead? Or is that too much interaction when he should be trying to resettle himself?

Thanks Ladies 

[babybarr]

If I put DS down earlier for bed, will he then wake up earlier than his normal 6.30/7am?

Hopefully not - I kind of look at it like, if I'm tired I have an early night, I don't necessarily wake earlier than normal.  Some bubs you will find will only do the 10.5hr nights when well rested, at this stage we need to get him over the OT.

You can offer water if you like, he may then get the message he needn't bother waking for it!  Offer it in a sippy cup though

[Natalie79]

Hi Ladies, a little update from me.

Well I've managed to cut the 2oz bottle that I would give DS during the NW and TBH that was pretty easy. It was obviously just habit for him. I've also increased his morning A so that he now has his nap anytime from 11.30am onwards.

I also tried WIWO at night, but as soon as I would leave, he would start crying and stand in his cot. I would count to 30 and then go back in, but he would automatically lie down waiting for me to put my hand on his back/hold his hand. I would then just say 'It's time for sleep now', stroke his back briefly and walk out and it would all start again, plus crying would get worse.

I've noticed over the last few nights, that his NW's are either at about 12.30/1am or at 4am. Again, I've tried WIWO, but he stands in his cot and his crying gets worse.

He seems to have a problem resettling himself after his woken up. I've waited on a couple of occassions before going in to him as he has cried/moaned on and off, but this has gone on for half hour and then I go into him.

Last night he woke at 12.45am, I left him for a little while to see if he would resettle. He didn't and it progressed to crying. I went in and settled him by holding his hand. He then woke again crying at 1.15am, I resettled his again and I eventually got into bed at 2am!

HELP! What the next thing you would suggest?

[babybarr]

How long is he napping and what time is bed?

Are there any teeth milling around?

[*Becky*]

wow - well done about the milk and the progress with the a time - that is great

yes teeth is my first thought too as Laura suggested. Have you noticed any other signs?