Should I stop DFing?

[sunny90]

My DS is almost 8 months old and on 3 solid meals a day. He still has a DF but I'd really like to cut it out. I've been having EW problems with him lately, which I am trying to solve with no success so far. I was wondering, should I just cut it out now because it can't hurt if he's anyway waking up early, or should I wait til he's sleeping better til a more normal hour in the morning? I don't know whether to put this in General Sleep or not but I figured it had more to do with E anyway.
Please advise!

[Tay]

TBH I would try to cut the DF. I'm thinking that the DF might actually be disturbing your LOs sleep which may be causing then the EW
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=87109.0

It's worth a try.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65750.0
xxx

[sunny90]

Thanks. He's also started waking for the DF. Does that mean he's still hungry or that it's a habitual waking? He'd been doing this, then stopped for a while after I did sleep training, and started again in the past few nights.

[zebstiredmum]

Hi Sunny90 - just hopping on here as I have same question as you, and going through same issue - EW, 7.5months old, 3 solid meals plus 4 milk feeds and DF - wondering weather to drop DF, but worried I'll get NWs if I do....still perhaps if he has NW instead of EW he'd go back to sleep afterwards!!

I'll check those links out from Tay.  I'm interested to hear how you get on...

[sunny90]

Well, we're moving house on Monday, so I think I'll start cutting it out then--I don't want to drive my poor baby even more crazy by trying to transition in the middle of a move! Here's to hoping it'll stop the EWs, because I'm seriously turning into a zombie.

[Tay]

Yes, it's always to wait until you're settled to make changes to the routine.
Waking up for the DF does sound like habitual waking - once you start bringing the feed earlier it should resolve that.
Good luck!
xxx

[zebstiredmum]

Hi Tay & Sunny90 - Sunny good luck with the move.  My DF is currently at 22:15, so I think I'll try moving it to 10pm tonight and see what happens...

Tay - I read the links, I don't think they explain very clearly for EBF babies - as no way of knowing how much baby is taking, so no way of knowing how to make sure they get the extra milk in the day...it mentions clustering, but not how/when to do it with an older baby who is on solids and milk.  I did cluster feed when DS was first born, but it seemed to make his NWs more frequent...., and currently DS isn't brilliant at taking the 4 milk feeds I offer him in the day, and it's really difficult getting him to BF well at bedtime, even though I make sure he has finished his solids by 17:30... sometimes it takes me till 8pm to get enough milk in him for him to settle to sleep anyway....so I guess that's clustering anyway.

I'll let you both know how we get on

[Tay]

The thing with BF babies is that you shouldn't need to worry too much about the amount taken, just keep feeding earlier and earlier and the LO should adjust.
Keeop us posted
xxx

[zebstiredmum]

Hi Sunny & Tay

Sunny - I hope your move went well.  I brought DF forward to 10pm - first night he slept till 6.30am - hooray!  but next 2 nights - 5.30am and 4.30am (worst ever) (didn't feed, I don't feed before 6.30am, 7am usually but lately he has been hungry earlier - at 4.30 he only cried for a minute then went quiet so I thought he'd resettled, but then he was crying again at 5am and his toys were everywhere so he'd just been playing quietly in his cot!  PUPD got him back to sleep, but he woke crying when I tried sneaking out at 5.30, PUPD again - quickly settled, but restless then at 6am his eyes pinged open and he was wide awake!)

After that we've been giving formula for the DF, and the amount he takes varies from around 80ml (nearly 3oz) to 150ml (5oz).  Last 2 days wake up has been around 6.30 (but I'm still waking at 5.30, or earlier!)  I don't think he's ready to give up the DF yet, as some nights he just doesn't BF for long at bedtime.  His EASY is a bit all over the place since he dropped the Catnap a few weeks ago - we still aren't back into any regular pattern, and he is often OT at bedtime which affects his eating.

I was thinking that the DF might be starting to affect his sleep, causing the EW, but I'm going to stick with it at 10pm for the time being, until his daytimes are a bit more predictable.  Good luck Sunny.

[Tay]

You know your own baby and I personally think that if something works for you then just go along with it! (I know some mums here that didn't drop the DF until around 9 months)
How are you getting on Sunny?
xxx

[zebstiredmum]

Hi Tay

Well I'm going DF cold turkey tonight to see what happens!  I had a gut feeling last night that I should drop it (been getting NWs and EWs) but I was so tired and worried I'd get a NW if I didn't DF that I did feed him.  Then had a NW at 00:50 anyway, and he didn't get back to sleep till 3am!!!  So, I'm thinking maybe DF disturbed his sleep cycle and am braving it tonight.  I didn't feed last night when he woke, and once asleep he stayed asleep till I woke him just after 8am.  So, I now know he can go for at least 10 hours between feeds! 

Soo, if I go cold turkey he should make it through till around 5am at least - I don't want to get into a habit of him feeding at 5am though, so if that happens is best thing to re-instate DF?  I gave him a bottle of EBM tonight at bedtime to ensure he had a good milk feed then - he took 180ml (6oz) and ate lots of solids today, but only very short BFs.  Fingers crossed!

Sunny - sorry for hijacking your thread a bit - but maybe my experience will help you too...

[sunny90]

So far brought it up to 10:15. Going to start at 10 tomorrow.
Nothing's changed so far! He's still waking up anywhere from 4:30 to 5:30!

[zebstiredmum]

Hi Sunny & Tay

Hugs to you Sunny!  Our LOs are the same age, and there are other Mum's on here with LOs the same age also going through EWs and I have friends whose babies also did it at this age but came out the other side after a few weeks, so fingers crossed ours will too!  I'm hoping very much that my DS is there already, or nearly, but of course last night could have been a one off!

I just have to say Yippee! though - went cold turkey on DF after about a week of it being 10pm.  DS did wake in the night at 2am, cried for about 10mins then suddenly stopped and was completely quiet (I was waiting outside his room, but it sounded as though he was winding down.  At around 8 mins he sounded as though he was getting more distressed but then the cry suddenly stopped!  It's been so long since he did a mantra cry maybe he's always done one big last cresendo before getting back to sleep.  He then woke at 05:50, cried for 5 mins and went back to sleep!  Lucky me!  (Except I have insomnia due to regular NWs and EWs so I didn't get any sleep anyway...c'est la vie)

I hope tonight goes well....I BF him at bedtime then gave a bottle of formula - he wolfed it down, so I think I have a supply problem there.  Any advice Tay?  I did try putting him back on both sides again but as there was no milk there he wasn't having any of it!  (emptied both sides in under 10 mins)

Good luck Sunny.  I'll let you know how day 2 of DF cold turkey goes.

[Tay]

zebstiredmum - Horay!!!! Great to hear it worked!! Just be prepared that sometimes after one or two nights babies do reverse back - just make sure you have a plan on how you'll deal with it and stick with it. But I'm sure now it's easier that you know he CAN STTN without being fed.
About the supply issue: why don't you try to pump after the last BF and then again at the time he would have usually taken the DF?
Also some mums say fenugreek is great (and don't forget to drink plenty of water!!!)

So far brought it up to 10:15. Going to start at 10 tomorrow.
Nothing's changed so far! He's still waking up anywhere from 4:30 to 5:30!

That is tough. Are you feeding him then? If you are: does he fall back asleep afterwards? For how long?

xxx

[sunny90]

Congrats zebstiredmum! I'm really happy for you!
Tay, I don't feed him til at least 6:30-7: as long as I can hold him off. So no, he doesn't go back to sleep, I let him cry for a while going in and out etc. and then finally usually give up after about 1/2 an hour and take him out...