Dairy - what do you think, are we good?

[~inbalance~]

So I had been dairy free for about 2mos, then a few weeks ago cheated and had a bit of cheese.  Since then it's slowly crept back into my diet.  Mostly cheese, a bit of butter, and the hidden stuff (no milk or yogurt yet), but last night I did have a bit of ice cream.  I've had a bit of dairy every day for about a week now.  F has been fine I think, no fussiness whatsoever, a bit of gassiness but it's not making him uncomfortable, and his poops have remained normal so far (no mucous).  The only thing that is standing out is this week naps are sucking again.  Before the prevacid they were always 30mins exactly no matter what.  After the meds starting working we were getting 45mins-2hrs, this was all last week.  Then this week we are getting 35-45min naps, mostly 35mins (but not 30mins  ).  So I was wondering if the dairy has something to do with it, but I can't make the connection since he doesn't seen uncomfortable in any way, just isn't staying asleep.  So I'm inclined to think the short naps are related to either routine and/or OT stuff and I'm safe to keep eating dairy in moderation.  What do you think, do we sound ok on the dairy reintroduction front?  Could it be dairy causing these crap naps?  Like I said, he's not fussy at all, no screaming or fussing during his A times (which is heaven compared to before we started the meds!)

[anielasmommy]

well i have to say i would not have reintroduced dairy until at least 1 y/o...it just doesnt work that way he is wayyy to young to have outgrown an intolerance certainly so unless it was not actually there i dont see how it could have vanished so quickly...maybe b/c its in moderation you just aren't noticing it so much...like maybe just a little bit of the stool would have had a little mucous. i know sleep and intolerance is usually greatly linked together...it is for us. its you're call momma...did he have blood prior to this? could you have his stool tested for blood to see?

[~inbalance~]

Thanks Kami.  The thing is, I don't think F had a true MPI, and neither did our paed.  I think his immature digestive system was just having a hard time with it in the beginning.  My understanding as well is that it can be outgrown prior to a year in some cases.  Our ND told me to go to 4mos dairy free.  I'm thinking he's doing ok but will keep an eye on it. 

[anielasmommy]

i mean if he seems fine then i would try not to woory but maybe test the stool just in case. i know my GI told me not to reintroduce anything until shes at least a year but DD has alot of intolerances so i am sure its different. hope it works out!

[~inbalance~]

Thank you.    I am optimistic.  I could never be sure that dairy was a problem anyway, it was just one of the routes I took when F was so fussy as a newborn.  I don't think he has any true intolerances.  But TBH I think he was just a colicky, refluxy guy.  It's like night and day how he is now.  I have to touch base with our paed in a few weeks anyway so it will be something to bring up.  I do value your input. 

[~ Vik ~]

So glad that F's is doing better, Martina!

It's possible that he's fine with hidden dairy and things like cheese and yogourt.  There are degrees of MPI - some babies can't tolerate ANY dairy at all (even hidden/trace), some are fine with hidden, some are fine with everything but can't tolerate straight milk.  And I have heard too that MPI can be outgrown at any age (though certainly more common as los get older).

You really have a couple of options if you're not sure.  You could continue to introduce things gradually and make note of any changes in his behaviour/symptoms.  That might be a challenge though, since you might not know if symptoms are the result of the dairy, or of OT, OS, reflux flare, etc.  If you're feeling brave there is another option...  When I did dairy elimination for Dylan's eczema I avoided everything, including hidden/trace, for 1 month.  I didn't really notice any improvement, so my doctor suggested that I reintroduce it in a BIG WAY - that way, if his eczema flared up I would know what the problem was.  Sometimes things get better so gradually that you don't notice that the are improving, but when you reintroduce the offending food a flare up of the symptoms happens quickly.  It sucks, but then you know.  I don't know if the same thing would be recommended if Dylan's symptoms were more serious than *just* eczema (like blood in the stool for example), but that's what I did.  I had a grilled cheese sandwich, a big glass of milk, and about a dozen chocolate chip cookies   His eczema did flare up some, so I knew that my elimination was actually helping.

Don't know if that rambling was helpful at all

[EloysH]

Martina,

A few things that could help:

1. Ds1 had MPI and outgrew it at 9 months at the same time he outgrew his reflux.  I am suggesting that if your LO's reflux is better then the MPI is probably better.

2.  I could eat cooked dairy like cakes or bread, just not cheese, yoghurt, milk, I could also eat butter. His MPI was not severe, this could be the case for you.

3. Have you tested the dairy intolerance by drinking a big glass of milk when you were off dairy?  What I mean  is do you have any evidence that he reacted to dairy at all?    If you want to prove to yourself that he has/doesn't have MPI you can challenge with the most dairy-ish thing - cows milk.

4.  Intolerance takes time to build up - it could be you are just approaching his threshold of tolerable dairy. The naps might be off ats first, then the poos come next. If you cut the dairy back - see if nap improve.  If you want to know if dairy is the problem, ramp it up and drink milk everyday.

What do you think?

[~inbalance~]

Thanks Vikki and Eloise 

It is so hard to tell, because he is so happy these days as opposed to all the screaming.  Poops are still good so will keep an eye on those.  That's what kept me freaking out about the dairy in the first place.  I mean, it could be that all his fussing and screaming was just reflux and not dairy related but I kept at it because of the poop issue when that might of just resolved itself with time anyway.

Another thing is recently our ND suggested I start taking a digestive enzyme to help my body break down foods and make them easier for F to digest, so that could be making a huge difference too.

What I *should* do is go back to avoiding it and see how the naps go.  Wish is were more obvious!   

[scarlettsmom]

What I *should* do is go back to avoiding it and see how the naps go.  Wish is were more obvious!   

I know, it's so hard because there isn't just one clear cut way to determine, nor is there a specific timeline.

4.  Intolerance takes time to build up - it could be you are just approaching his threshold of tolerable dairy. The naps might be off ats first, then the poos come next. If you cut the dairy back - see if nap improve.  If you want to know if dairy is the problem, ramp it up and drink milk everyday.

What do you think?

This was my first thought.  And teeny tiny amounts over time can cause damage to the gut (if he's MPI) and then it will all start going down hill.

If he was true MPI I agree w/pp that touching dairy this early would probably not be my first choice.  His gut would need time to heal and it can take a while.  However, if there was never a true diagnosis, and YOU feel good about it, then that makes sense.

Honestly - I would either cut it all out again, sort out the sleep and then re-challenge.  Or just go for it.  Drink some milk and see what happens.

Good luck!!  Hope the issues w/dairy have passed!!

 

[clazzat]

I was going to say that it could build up as well - I have started being really lax with E (letting her have yoghurts when we are at friends' houses etc) and she seemed fine, but after a few weeks of me not really paying attention she has started coughing a lot at night, her nose is runny and she is wheezing quite a bit.  I've never had to worry about hidden dairy (butter is fine, for example, and I have never checked the ingredients of foods I give her) so it's just been milk, cheese and yoghurt that I have avoided - so clearly she only has a mild intolerance - but it does seem that the reaction has built up while I have been careless.

The disturbed sleep might just be the tip of the iceberg, and it's possible that if you carry on having dairy then the reaction will build up again.

[Katet]

I was going to say that it could build up as well - I have started being really lax with E (letting her have yoghurts when we are at friends' houses etc) and she seemed fine, but after a few weeks of me not really paying attention she has started coughing a lot at night, her nose is runny and she is wheezing quite a bit.  I've never had to worry about hidden dairy (butter is fine, for example, and I have never checked the ingredients of foods I give her) so it's just been milk, cheese and yoghurt that I have avoided - so clearly she only has a mild intolerance - but it does seem that the reaction has built up while I have been careless.

The disturbed sleep might just be the tip of the iceberg, and it's possible that if you carry on having dairy then the reaction will build up again.

DS1 & I are exactly like that, I find that I get symptoms with full fat milk in coffee but fine on skim, can eat processed "yellow cheeses" but not white ones etc. With DS1 he can say have icecream & yellow cheese no issue, even a hot chocolate made with heated low fat milk, but not straight milk/milkshake, where the milk isn't heated . Both of us have tested + for dairy allergy & I've found that if I keep to a certain level with both of us we are ok... in hindsight I am pretty sure the green nappies/unsettled baby weren't "normal" for mild reflux, but were MPI for DS1... he threw up every time we tried him with milk at 12mo & was a much happier & more settled toddler when he stopped having yogurt & milk drinks.

So if it was me I'd be limiting the dairy to the more processed end of items & not too much.

[anielasmommy]

i know with DD her tummy from the intolerances and shes a horrid sleeper...still is but we are still having blood in her stool and working with a GI as to why.
IMO it doesn't just dissapear so suddenly but where you weren't really sure it makes it questionable. i know how hard elimination diets are i have been on a super limited one for like 7 or 8 months now...i mean come on i can't even eat corn! lol
even though some of the things i don't eat we are not 100% sure if they effect DD or not i personally would rather be safe than sorry. i know with Aniela it started out dairy and i though they were nuts anyways but then i really began to see a difference and then bam her symptoms were horrendous and she was intolerant to like everything! so it can happen out of nowhere and it can present itself like reflux symptoms. she was never too gassy she didnt really pull her legs up or any of that. she always did "crunches" though and i always though she was just trying to sit up...she had lots of NWs from 4 months on but not before and never napped well and still does not.
it is really hard to think there may be something wrong but the possibility of it and the sacrifice on you're part may really be worth it in the end. i know if i could have gone back and eliminated everything in the beginning to spare DD of all that pain...
but i REALLY hope none of that happens to you at all! (((hugs)))

[~inbalance~]

Back to avoiding dairy which is depressing but I'm drowning my depression with some non-dairy ice cream. 

[EloysH]

sorry Martina, I know it's not the outcome you wanted    At least you can have dairy free icecream though !

[scarlettsmom]

(((hugs))) Martina.  Enjoy that (non-dairy) ice cream!!  It's calorie free for mamas of MPI LOs y;know!  =)