Desperate for some sleep, 7.5mo NWs and EWs, please help us!!

[sianie]

Hi there....it does sound like things are moving in the right direction, great!!

You might find it takes him a few days to get used to not waking up for his night feeds...it had become a habit for DS too & he took a week to wean off the night feed & then a few more days to get him used to not waking at that time (his was 4am). I used to try & let him re-settle as much as poss but then go in if he wasn't (plus didn't want him waking up DD!)...I sat next to his cot & just put my hand on his back (he sleeps on his tummy & this has nearly always worked to settle him...he hated sssh/pat), hr gradually got used to the fact that it wasn't wake up time & then started sleeping through....

Unless Ellis has a dirty nappy (v. rare at night), then I've never changed his nappy at night. He's in really absorbent ones 'tho (Pampers Baby Dry).

How has your day been? 

[jackman]

Hi Sianie, well yesterday's naps were like textbook. I let DS sleep 1.5hrs for his first nap (he did it naturally). 2nd nap was 1hr20min so I was hopeful for a good night. However, that wasn't the case. I really don't know what is going on or if I'm doing something wrong.

There seems to be a couple of things going wonky. First, DS is taking forever to settle at night. I have to start at least an hour before I really want him to go to bed, otherwise he'll go to bed too late and be OT. I'm not sure if he is in an OT/UT loop, teething, getting used to not getting fed at night? I'm at a loss and losing it.....I was up most of last night and all he does is cry.

-To rule out teeth, I have medicated him right before BT - that doesn't do anything.
-I try to put him to bed early to combat the OT, but he doesn't settle easily and just cries and at times it will take a good hour to get him to bed.
-Been doing my own PU/PD to get him past his usualy times for feeding and he just gnaws like crazy at his blankie. I suppose he is trying to tell me that he doesn't know how to fall back to sleep without the feeding.
-If it is OT/UT loop, I don't even know where to begin to address it.

I just tried to put him down for his 1st nap, he is soo tired but is fighting me like crazy - I know he is OT! A time 3hr 40 min and counting.

I'm sorry to just blather on like this. I appreciate all your help, I just don't know what to do. I have created a monster through all my bad AP'ing. I do hope that time will help my DS adjust. And of course DD is sad too because she knows mommy is so tired and a bear at times.

Thanks for listening.

[sianie]

So he definitely had good naps....that means he shouldn't have been OT by BT...

What's his personality like? I ask as DD is mega spirited and needs a really long wind down before bed, always has whereas DS is very calm and laid back & I can put him down after only 5-10 mins wind down.

If it's pain that's causing him to be unsettled I'd give him meds 20-30 mins before BT so they kick in before he goes to sleep. From what you've said it does sound like teething/discomfort to me? Teething can also lead to OT & usually you have to cut A times back whilst teeth are coming through.

You are doing a great job, don't forget that! It is so hard with 2 LO's & you can only do what you are doing! 

[jackman]

DS is spirited for sure. What really baffles me is that for naps DS goes down so quickly, I mean within minutes or seconds sometimes (except for the last 2 days) and BT is completely different. I am trying hard to avoid giving his last bottle and having him fall asleep as I do not want that to become a prop. So my routine is pretty much the same every night - bath, bottle and then sit in rocker quietly as I tell him it is sleepy time. After about 10 min I put him in the crib and he just rolls around and tries to crawl and at times it takes up to an hour to fall asleep. The room is dark, there is white noise and I'm right there with him.

I let DS sleep for 2hrs this morning hoping to curb the OT from last night. I'll shoot for the regular 2hr40min-3hr of A time and see if he'll go down for a 2nd nap and I'm hoping for at least an hour.

I also think DS is in pain, maybe coming down with a head cold (DH and DD had sniffles for last week). It's never been this bad, but maybe it is a combo of teeth and cold??? I'll continue to medicate and hope for a better night.

Thanks again Sianie.

[sianie]

You could also try a dream med in the early hours once his 1st lot of meds have worn off...use a syringe if you have 1?

If he is feeling unwell from teeth/ cold etc then it will make him a lot more unsettled & out of sorts (especially as he's spirited!) so you may need to keep A times lower to prevent OT until he feels better.

Hope you have a better day! 

[zebstiredmum]

Hi Jackman

So sorry you've been having a rough time.  Big big hugs to you.  Has LO always taken a long time to settle at BT or is that a new issue?  Hope u have a good night tonight. X

[jackman]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate both of you. It means so much to have someone out there who understands how difficult it is with lo's. I try to explain to DH, but if it isn't a mathematical formula, it kinda goes in one ear and out the other IYKWIM. LOL.

Zebstiredmum - this is definitely a new thing for DS at BT to take so long to settle. It used to take him 10 min if not less, but lately I'm sure it is a combination of changes for him that is causing it? Or at least that is what I try to tell myself.

Sianie - I'll definitely give a dream med a go this evening. I really am starting to think that DS is not well. He fell asleep while we were driving home from the shops this afternoon. I was targeting an A time of 2hr 40min and he basically did exactly what I thought. He usually can only sleep 45 min tops if not in his cot. At least he got a good 2hr nap in this morning.

I'll let you both know how it goes over the next few days. My mum is coming for a visit on Sunday and I had hoped to have DS on his way to good nights before she came as she tends to intervene a bit too much. I know she means well, but there is a madness to all of this right? I just don't want all that I have worked hard to do for DS in the last week go to pot.

BTW, how are things going for the both of you? I'm hoping better than me!! :-)

[Huds Mom]

Hi Jackman, I am sorry you are going through this. My DS was wetting through everything and after some trial and error my DS goes to bed with a size 4 Huggies overnight and a Pull up diaper over top. It seems crazy and he has the biggest bum, but it works. I used to change him during the dream feed, but I found it really didnt help. We are weaning out the DF now so I am hoping we can go back to just a Pampers 12hr or just a Huggies Overnight soon.

I have had no luck with trying to get my DS to nap and sleep better at night. Unfortunately we have had some time away from the house and it has messed up any progress. So we are now back at home for at least a couple weeks to try and get things on track. I am so tired of trying to find a solution. I know i need to be patient but my goodness it is exhausting.

I am praying the next couple weeks of being at home, and not going out during nap times will work. I may go a bit stir crazy but willing to try anything!

Carrie

[jackman]

Hi Carrie - thanks for the suggestion on the diapers for overnight. I may just have to give that a try. ;-)

Yes it is exhausting and at times I have to step away for a few seconds to breathe and calm myself so my DS doesn't feel how frustrated I can become. Or I get on this forum and hope that the ladies on here can help me to find my center.

Hugs to you and the one thing that keeps me going is knowing that we are instilling good sleeping habits for life. I didn't do this with my DD (3yo) and we are still battling BT and NWs with her.

I do find that staying home and trying to get decent naps can really help to get lo's back on track. Altho you can also feel trapped and I believe that is what many of the mom's in the 7-9mo birth clubs have stated. I'm sorry that you are experiencing trouble too.

Keeping my fingers crossed that the next few weeks help you to figure out your issues for better naps and nights. Have you posted to see if someone can help you?

DS went to bed so much better tonight (within 15min), so hoping for a good night.....

[Rizzo]

Hi everyone, I just posted a similar thread in NW's - I have a 7mo DS.

You are really strong to wean off feeds and the dummy at night - I am so nervous about doing that - my DS always seems to want to suck on something - he usually mouths my arm whenever he is tired and wants to comfort suck, hence the reason i started using the dummy (was better than BF every 2 hours!!).

My DS is really fussy with solids, so is only having 3 small meals (and sometimes only 2 if he is grumpy), so I feel bad if I dont feed him at night. How do I know if its habitual or whether he needs them??

Anyway, would love to see the progress of this thread - have attached mine below, in case anyone wants to give me advice too!!

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=177338.msg2006605#msg2006605

[zebstiredmum]

Hi Jackman

Glad to hear he settled quicker - could it be discomfort causing him to take a long time to settle?  Maybe wind - then the bedtime meds wouldn't make a difference.  Do you keep a food diary?  I found that LO didn't settle well if I gave him yogurt at tea time.  Or hunger?  My LO started taking longer to settle, but now I give him a top up FF he settles really well (I know your LO if FF, but is he finishing his full feed?  maybe he was having a bit of a GS and wanting a bit more? 

I've had a few really good nights - even sleeping through till nearly 7am a couple of times!!  I'm experimenting, but I think the days he sleeps late are the days he's had banana for breakfast...my friend said she thought her LO slept better when he'd had banana too...I'll keep you posted. 

Last night he did have an NW, I left him as he was trying to self settle, but every now and then he'd whimper.  When I went in and cuddled him he felt really cold and I noticed temp in room also lower than usual, so I switched his summer sleeping bag for a winter one and he settled straight away.  Do you use baby sleeping bags/ have a thermometer in LOs bedroom? 

I have insomnia at the moment though, so in spite of better nights from LO I'm still not getting any sleep!!

[jackman]

Zebstiredmum - I'm glad to hear that your LO is sleeping in later. Please do tell me if your banana theory works for later mornings. I will try anything to get us thru the EWs. We had one last night at 4:30am and DS took an hour to fall asleep. Only good thing was that he did stay asleep until 7:30am once back down. He hasn't slept that late for a long time as he usually wakes 40-60min after an EW.

We also had 1 NW around 10pm and it was due to temp. DS was hot and I'm starting to think we need a thermometer in the room as I think 1/2 of the time DS wakes due to hot/cold issues. Do you have one and if so, what is a good brand?

Funny you should mention yogurt causing your DS wind at night since I do feed DS some at dinner. So tonight I didn't feed it to him and I'll see if it helps him sleep better. I do keep a log of DS' meals and if I believe it makes a difference in naps or bedtime, I'll repeat the same meals and hope for similar results. LOL.

Again, DS settled easily tonight and you might be right about a GS or just still adjusting to not having nightfeedings. The last few days, DS has taken more formula during the day and I gave him a top up right before bed. I hope we will see even more progress in the next few nights or at least another week.

Have your EWs passed? What would you do when DS would have an EW? I have given up trying to resettle and instead just let him roll around and stay in the room so he knows that I'm there with him until he falls asleep again. I'm not sure if that is a false sense of security for him or a prop? What are your thoughts?

Hopefully you get over your insomnia soon and sleep. I too can't sleep well if I have been up several times a night for a few nights. The night DS STTN, I was up at least 3 or 4 times expecting him to cry out for me.

[sianie]

Hi there!

Re: room thermometer, guess it depends how much you want to spend....we bought a 'Gro-Egg' thermometer when we had DD....egg shaped as the name suggests & changes colour depending on the temp of the room. DS's baby monitor also shows room temp on it which has been really useful.

Do you use baby sleeping bags? They have been a great buy for my LO's & have really helped with regulating LO's temps whilst they are asleep & also mean they can't pull covers off etc

Might be worth just leaving DS to settle himself without you going into the room when you get a EW. You might find that he settles quicker if you aren't there?

[zebstiredmum]

Hi Jackman

I have a Gro-egg thermometer too - it's great - it acts like a night light too, giving off just enough glow for me to be able to see when I go in to DS in the night.  EWs seem to have passed (fingers crossed) - only one this week.  No banana yesterday but he still slept till 6.30ish (normal pre EW wake up time), so maybe the banana theory is disproved!

Also baby sleeping bags - if you aren't using them - I definitely recommend them, a bit expensive, but worth it.

When I get EWs I leave DS as long as possible in the hope that he'll resettle, but he usually doesn't.  A couple of times when he woke at 5.30 I tried feeding to see if that'd get him back to sleep but that didn't work either!  Over the last week he woke once at 5.30, but was happy - just making squealy happy noises and playing in his cot, so I left him, and he didn't get grumpy until 6.30, so I got him up then and fed him. 

If he has an EW and cries for over 10 mins, or sounds really distressed then I try PUPD for as long as possible, a couple of times he's really tried to settle but keeps tossing and turning, then crying again, and I've given meds (calpol) after which he settled straight away, so I guess he was probably in pain.

Hope your nights improve soon  (and fingers crossed that mine don't revert, and that my insomnia passes!  ) 

[jackman]

Sianie & Zebstiredmum - thank you both about the Gro-Egg idea. I'll check one out over the next couple of days. What sort of sleeping bag (brand) do you both use? Do you have anything else under the sleep slack? How about when winter arrives?

This morning we had an EW at 5:30am and I just left DS roll around and mantra cry until around 6:40am when I finally went in to start our day. We also had zero NWs, so technically DS slept from 7:3opm - 5:30am and that is STTN!! Yay! A second one for us which is huge. The top up right before bed truly helped Z to settle for BT and got him thru the night, thanks for the suggestion. :-)