Author Topic: ENGORGEMENT HELL  (Read 7495 times)

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Offline kitty30

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ENGORGEMENT HELL
« on: September 11, 2010, 16:00:39 pm »
Hi guys. 
Im looking for some advice and support.  DD2 is 3 days today and my milk came in last night.  My boobs are huge and I have swollen lumps in both armpits-  not to mention the cracked nipples and bleeding.  How long does this last its agony.  I had over-supply with DD1 and am petrified im heading the same direction. 

I have avoided expressing.  Will things settle and is it normal for excessive engorgement when milk first comes in.  Does it get better.  DD2 has no chance of emptying my breast per feed so she is probabl only getting fore-milk each time.

Any info/advice welcome as I feel like giving up now (ths was not the plan).

cheers.

Offline ~ Vik ~

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2010, 17:30:53 pm »
Hi!  Congratulations on your new little girl!!!  So sorry that you're going through this right now :-*  Engorgement can be SO, SO, SO painful.  I understand why you don't want to pump at the risk of increasing your supply - keep in mind though that (as a last resort) if you just pump off an oz to make yourself more comfortable you shouldn't see a huge impact on your overall supply.  Plus, if you are so engorged that it makes it difficult for your dd to latch, a quick pump will make it easier for her to latch on and take a full feed.

At this early, early stage you can and should nurse on demand.  Here are some tips from kellymom.com, a fantastic online breastfeeding resource:

How to prevent or minimize engorgement

    * Nurse early and often - at least 10 times per 24 hours. Don’t skip feedings (even at night).
    * Nurse on baby's cues ("on demand"). If baby is very sleepy: wake baby to nurse every 2-3 hours, allowing one longer stretch of 4-5 hours at night.
    * Allow baby to finish the first breast before offering the other side. Switch sides when baby pulls off or falls asleep. Don't limit baby's time at the breast.
    * Ensure correct latch and positioning so that baby is nursing well and sufficiently softening the breasts.
    * If baby is not nursing well, express your milk regularly and frequently to maintain milk supply and minimize engorgement.

Tips for treating engorgement
Before nursing

    * Gentle breast massage from the chest wall toward the nipple area before nursing.
    * Cool compresses for up to 20 minutes before nursing.
    * Moist warmth for a few minutes before nursing may help the milk begin to flow (but will not help with the edema/swelling of engorgement). Some suggest standing in a warm shower right before nursing (with shower hitting back rather than breasts) and hand expressing some milk, or immersing the breasts in a bowl or sink filled with warm water. Avoid using warmth for more than a few minutes as the warmth can increase swelling and inflammation.
    * If baby is having difficulty latching due to engorgement, the following things can soften the areola to aid latching:
          o Reverse pressure softening (directions in the link)
          o Hand expression
          o If the above two things are not effective, try pumping for a few minutes with a hand, electric (low setting) or "juice-jar" breast pump.

 
While nursing

    * Gentle breast compressions and massage during the nursing session can reduce engorgement.
    * After nursing for a few minutes to soften the breast, it may be possible to obtain a better latch by removing baby from the breast and re-latching.

 
Between feedings

    * If your breast is uncomfortably full at the end of a feeding or between feedings, then express milk to comfort so that the breasts do not become overfull.
          o Hand expression may be most helpful (though obviously second to breastfeeding) as this drains the milk ducts better.
          o Mom might also use a hand pump or a quality electric pump on a low setting for no more than 10 minutes (engorged breast tissue is more susceptible to damage). A "juice-jar" pump may also be used.
          o Massaging the breast (from the chest wall toward the nipple area) is helpful prior to and during milk expression.
          o It's not good to let the breasts get too full, but you also don't want to overdo the pumping, as too much pumping will encourage overproduction. If you do need to express milk for comfort, your need to express will likely decrease gradually over time; if it does not, then try gradually decreasing the amount you express.
    * Use cold compresses (ice packs over a layer of cloth) between feedings; 20 minutes on, 20 minutes off; repeat as needed.
    * Cabbage leaf compresses can also be helpful.
    * Many moms are most comfortable wearing a well fitting, supportive bra. Avoid tight/ill-fitting bras, as they can lead to plugged ducts and mastitis.
    * Talk to your health care provider about using a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory such as ibuprofen (approved by the American Academy of Pediatrics for use in breastfeeding mothers) to relieve pain and inflammation.

AVOID:

    * Excess stimulation (for example, don’t direct a shower spray directly on the breasts).
    * Application of heat to the breasts between feedings. This can increase swelling and inflammation. If you must use heat to help with milk flow, limit to a few minutes only.
    * Restricting fluids. This does not reduce engorgement. Drink to thirst.

Other treatments for engorgement
Cabbage

Applying cabbage leaf compresses to the breast can be helpful for moderate to severe engorgement. There is little research on this treatment thus far, but there is some evidence that cabbage may work more quickly than ice packs or other treatments, and moms tend to prefer cabbage to ice packs.
What are cabbage compresses used for?

    * Engorgement.
    * Extreme cases of oversupply, when the usual measures for decreasing supply (adjusting nursing pattern, nursing "uphill," etc.) are not working
    * During weaning, to reduce mom's discomfort and decrease milk supply.
    * Sprains or broken bones, to reduce swelling.

To use cabbage leaves:

    * Green cabbage leaves may be used chilled or at room temperature.
    * Wash cabbage leaves and apply to breasts between feedings.
    * For engorgement or oversupply: Limit use as cabbage can decrease milk supply. Leave on for 20 minutes, no more than 3 times per day; discontinue use after engorgement/oversupply subsides.

(Here's the link if you want to read the full article:  http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom/engorgement.html)

I hope that something in here is helpful! :-*
D ~ dairy, egg, peanut/nut and mustard allergies
Proud to have breastfed for over 24 months!


Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2010, 18:27:37 pm »
Just adding more (((hugs))).  Vikki's given great advice.  I found hand expressing a bit before nursing and massage during nursing to be the most helpful.  It will pass!  The first few days are the worst but it gets way better so quickly.  Don't give up!  You can make it! :-*
*Kate*



Offline bexandlucy

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2010, 19:17:41 pm »
Hi! I realy feel for you, I had terrible engorgement when my milk came in, so much so that my LO couldn't latch on. To top it all I was in floods of tears. Ended up phoning labour ward at 3 in the morning cause i didn't know what to do!

I found that crouching on my hands and knees in a warm bath helped and i let the milk drip out. Also if you can get some breast shells - i found these a lifesaver (they are little cups that sit in your bra and let the milk drip out - if you sterilise you can keep the milk and give it to babe or freeze it).

My midwife matron visited after, she told me that the guidelines had changed and they now advise that it IS a good idea to express a little off to help ease the engorgement. In my case it also helped to shape my nipple a bit and get a better latch.

((hugs)) to you, its horrible, but it does pass

Bec xxxx

Bec





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Offline Texomamama

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2010, 20:12:01 pm »
In the same boat as you- DD2 is 6 days old, I am very engorged and uncomfortable (man those armpits do hurt, don't they?) and she can't/won't latch on.  I have been bottle feeding her since last night using EBM which I pump and a bit of formula.  I have a lac consultant coming on Monday, but I am halfway out the door, so to speak.  For me, what it boils down to is that I am just not willing to make the sacrafices Vicki so helpfully posted above.  I was successfully able to bf DD1 for 7 months, but I have too much going on in my life now (primarily another kid, right?). I think I would rather pump 3 times a day and get her some breastmilk than endure the next week of hell until I can figure this out (assuming I can at all). If the bottle destroys any chance of her going bac on the breast, I am going to chance it.

Offline kitty30

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2010, 17:51:32 pm »
Thanks for the replies.

I'm still in agony this is day 2 -  so i'm guessing its still going to take some-time.  I have started expressing an ounce before feeding which is helping slightly but the engorgement is making latching difficult and intensely painful.  I too am ++ tearful my 2 yr old is acting up (completely understandable ) but between expressing, cold packing, and ages spent trying to feed lo I feel so emotional for the time she does not have with me.  In addition DD2s stools still green and gassy probably due to over supply-  breastfeeding sounds so easy !!!!

I too fed DD1 for 5 months just not sure I have the strength this time to persevere.  Thing is stopping will be just as painful !!!!

Anyway sorry for digressing think the pain doesn't help the emotions.

How long do you reckon before I notice any change ?

Thanks everyone

Offline ~ Vik ~

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2010, 18:17:34 pm »
(((big hugs))) Between the hormones and the pain, dealing with a newborn and chasing after a toddler, it's no wonder that you're feeling emotional!  Just remember that you can always post on the boards for support :-*

Every mom is different - some notice engorgement lessening very quickly, with others it takes a bit more work and time.  If dd2's stools are still green and gassy (indicating oversupply and/or too much foremilk) then I would definitely recommend using the chilled cabbage leaves.  Not only will the cold be soothing, but the leaves themselves do help to reduce supply somewhat.  Plus, because of the shape, you can kind of wrap them around your breasts, and they are much less bulky than cold packs.  Just make sure that you don't overdo it (which seems difficult at the mo I'm sure!) as your supply is still getting sorted.

I hope things get settled for you quickly :-* :-*
D ~ dairy, egg, peanut/nut and mustard allergies
Proud to have breastfed for over 24 months!


Offline Texomamama

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2010, 01:52:29 am »
kitty,

I don't know what you or I will end up doing, but just remember that the single most important factor in raising a happy and healthy baby is to have a happy and healthy mother.  I am going to look at the big picture here and realize that I am running a household of 4 people, and my new LO is but one member of it.  Granted, her needs come first right now, but if I choose to head to the bottle (with or without using EBM and formula supplement), I will do so keeping my entire family unit's needs, as well as my own, foremost in my mind.

I do wish you luck and hope you get the outcome you want.  I would love to revisit this thread in a week and see what happens for both of us.

Offline kitty30

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2010, 09:54:51 am »
Thanks guys,

Will definitely keep you all updated. 

Texomamma your words are very true and comforting.  If only you could stop the milk overnight both options equal pain.  Funny labour even without pain relief seemed easier than this !!!!  Wishing you well in your journey too.

 


Offline first_time_mommy

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2010, 21:14:45 pm »
Loved the title of your post...Engorgement Hell...it is the truth!

I only have a few tips that made it easier for me.  First, I soaked breast pads with water and froze them in the freezer.  Then, you can put them right on your breasts.  They really help.  Also, for the sore nipples, soothies (made by lanisoh) worked really good for me.  If I remember right, my engorgement only lasted 3-4 days, so you are almost there!  In the early days, I wanted to quit BFing so badly, but I told myself I would give it 3 weeks, so that I didn't make any rash decisions while under the influence of the crazy hormones from delivering. 

Alexa is 5 months next Monday, and we are still going strong.  Even after major nipple trauma and 4 weeks of syringe feeding expressed milk.  Good luck, and it will get better very soon!

Offline Mum-of-Two

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2010, 00:47:09 am »
they now advise that it IS a good idea to express a little off to help ease the engorgement. In my case it also helped to shape my nipple a bit and get a better latch.

((hugs)) to you, its horrible, but it does pass



Same here.  I found expressing by hand in a towel the easiest, but a bit of a waste so bless you if you can safe it.  I pumped but in cases of extreme engorgement there was no relief and help for a latch that worked as well as doing it myself.

Big hugs, hope things settle soon!!


Angels 7wks-June07, 11wks-Oct07, 5wks-Jan08

Offline Mum-of-Two

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2010, 00:48:44 am »

I don't know what you or I will end up doing, but just remember that the single most important factor in raising a happy and healthy baby is to have a happy and healthy mother.  I am going to look at the big picture here and realize that I am running a household of 4 people, and my new LO is but one member of it.  Granted, her needs come first right now, but if I choose to head to the bottle (with or without using EBM and formula supplement), I will do so keeping my entire family unit's needs, as well as my own, foremost in my mind.

I do wish you luck and hope you get the outcome you want.  I would love to revisit this thread in a week and see what happens for both of us.

This was also true for me which is why both children began weaning at 3 months.


Angels 7wks-June07, 11wks-Oct07, 5wks-Jan08

Offline kitty30

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2010, 13:59:09 pm »
Ok so the engorgement has finally passed !!!  Now however my RT breast/nipple is agony during feeds.  I mean excruciating.  I thought my nipples would have toughened up by now !!  Last night was so painful I was in tears and ended up giving a bottle.  I really do not know what to do !!  I was so wanting breast feeding to work but I feel so deflated.  The pain is so severe that I spend the day in fear of that feed.  How long do you think this will last.  I am seriously close to quitting.  Some-one suggested I might have thrush but I cannot find clear information on symptoms for that.  Please advise,

Thanks xx

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2010, 16:19:37 pm »
I'm so glad that the engorgement has waned. :)

I actually had the same problem with nipple pain - the right side too!  I had to use the tactics I'd practiced for labor to get through the first few minutes of each feed.  It was really tough.  But it did pass.  I'd say it was a good 10 days or perhaps even 2 weeks for me, but everyone is different.  I had a crack, or fissure, on that nipple and it was so painful.  I didn't really know what to do about it and we were traveling somewhere that I didn't have the power of the internet to help. :) 

Here's an article that discusses nipple pain: http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVFebMar00p10.html.  It basically says that warm compresses and putting freshly expressed milk on the nipple can help a lot.  Also, you can try lansinoh creams.  Here's another good one: http://www.llli.org/FAQ/heal.html.

It's possible that you have thrush.  Here's an article about that: http://www.llli.org/FAQ/thrush.html

I know it seems like this is never going to work.  The early days of BFing can be really tough for so many reasons.  But you will get through this and then it becomes so easy and so convenient!  The benefits for you and your LO are enormous.  Of course, we all have to do what we have to do, so we'll support you in whatever you decide.  Let us know however we can help.

HTH. :D

*Kate*



Offline Texomamama

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Re: ENGORGEMENT HELL
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2010, 21:38:34 pm »
Sometimes, quitting for a few days (making sure you pump to keep up your supply) and then trying again helps.  I did that this week.  I let 3 days go by with no trying and then for the hack of it yesterday, I tried to bf again and she latched on and suckled for about 15 mins.  I just did it with low expectations, threw out all the suggestions of what positions to use and just tried what worked for me when I had DD1

But, I found that I really prefer the flexibility of the bottle.  Remember, there is a difference between breastfeeding and breastmilk.  For me, I just want her to have the milk.  The delivery vehicle (breast or bottle) is less important.  I know I will not pump enough to give her all breastmilk, but I am happy with a third bm and the rest formula.

I hope things are better for you.  I am rooting for you (Ha. Get it?).  You are the "me" that hopefully doesn't quit :)