Shush pat newbie, help please!

[cuddlyduck]

Hi,

This is my first post, i'm hoping for some guidance and answers to my questions on whether what i'm planning to do sounds about right using SP  

My DD is nearly 4 months old and doesn't want to settle in her cot for daytime sleeps, though she sleeps well at night so i think this is a good method to try as i can't bear to leave her to cry.
Would it be ok to pat her chest as she doesn't like being on her side so i can't reach her back? Also we have a mobile above her, do you think this would hinder the SP method? When doing SP do you give eye contact to your baby? How does your baby cope upon wakening when you're not there as they have gone to sleep with you by their side? Do you think it is ok to keep a soft comforter toy in the cot next to baby whilst using this method?- my DD sometimes picks this up and sucks it for a bit whilst in her cot before throwing it away but i like to keep it there in case she wants it for comfort. Thank you for any help you can give!
Oh and how long do you use this technique for?

[deckchariot]

Welcome to BW   I'm thrilled that you don't want to leave her to CIO.  There are loads of mums here who've had great success with shh/pat, so you'll get wonderful support.  The most important thing with starting shh/pat is to make sure you've established an EASY routine.  Can you post yours?

Yes, it's absolutely fine to pat her chest rather than her back - lots of mums find variations of shh/pat that work best for their bubs.  In terms of the mobile, it's up to you -some bubs find it too stimulating so it's best to take it down.  You don't want to make eye contact with your bub when doing shh/pat - as that engages them more, and the idea is to calm them to sleep not keep them engaged with you.  The idea is that babies can only really focus on 2 things at a time (the shh and the pat), so they then fall asleep because all other stimulants are drowned out.

If she has a comfort item, keep that by all means - the idea with pat/shh is that they learn to soothe themselves to sleep - so that's great if she has something she is already starting to use.

Here are a few other links that are really helpful when starting pat/shh:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85499.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64275.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64277.0

hth
michelle

[cuddlyduck]

Thanks very much for the reply, will take a look at those links.

I have been following my baby's lead throughout the day and breastfeed on demand. I would like to have a more structured routine now that she is 4 months though. I do try to start her day at 7am then do feed, activity and sleep by 2 hours of being awake but depends on the night she's had as to when she wakes. The rest of the day i find she likes to be fed every 2 hours at the moment which can confuse sleep and eating times so i tend to go with the flow. Bedtime routine is bath 6-6.30, massage, feed then bed which we have done for a while now. Any other advice you can give would be welcome.

Thanks again x

[deckchariot]

At 4 mos, she probably can go longer than 2 hrs between feeds, so I might try to slowly extend those - try distracting her for a bit (even just 15 min at a time) to lengthen the time between feeds.  Somewhere between 3-4 hrs is probably good.  Not all bf bubs make it to 4 hrs between feeds (until they start solids), so it's ok if she doesn't.  My concern with every 2 hrs of eating is that she may just be snacking and not taking a full feed.

EASY is all about knowing your bub, so it's not going to be a strict schedule - it's a routine and flow to the day - eat, activity, sleep....and it looks like that's what you're trying to do, so that's great.  I'd say to start you EASY when she wakes in the morning for her first feed, and then aim for roughly 2 hrs between sleeps in the day, and a 12 hr day overall.  If she takes a good nap (anything over 1 - 1.5 hrs), she can probably still do 2 hrs of A time.  If she has a short nap, she'll need less time before she sleeps again.

Here's a link with sample EASY routines based on age:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164253.0

hth
michelle

[cuddlyduck]

Thanks Michelle,

Do you think it matters that we do her feed then straight to bed in the evening? I mean is she confused as this is different to daytime naps?

[cuddlyduck]

Hi Michelle,

Just thought i'd report back. Well this morning i started s/p and it has worked!!!
Couple of q's though, how long should you continue to do s/p? i just carried on until she fell asleep in cot, she didn't need picking up again after initial time so kept her there and continued. Should i find eventually i can put her in her cot and she will just self settle without s/p or will she need me to help her to sleep unless we go to pu/pd?
Sorry for all the questions, really want to get it right! Think i may have to get the book, i'm confused which one to get though as there are several on Amazon?
Oh and i plan to leave longer between feeds today too.
Thanks for all your help x

[yasmina5]

Hi I am going to follow the answer to this thread as I too am a newbie to all of this and living in Mexico means I can't easily buy the book. I have started my 4 MO with shush- pat routine as an aid to remove the dummy and improve naps and NW.
I am trying to establish an EASY routine and today is day 2 of SP and she slept an 1.15 nap for the first time ever, although i had to go in and do SP at 30-40 mins to get her into next stage of sleep.

I too am curious as to how long we should do shush pat for before we try to leave the baby to self settle days or weeks?, should I already leave the baby when i first put her down to try and self sttle or just go straight to shush pat?

She is also bad for NW and wakes 2-5 times a night and is usually hungry so i feed her if it has been around 3 hrs since last feed... if it hasn't I am trying shush pat to get her back to sleep... this worked last night but she woke up again 30 ,mins later so i gave up and fed her. Do you think its too much for her to deal with removing some of the night feeds aswell as the sleep training and removing dummy?

Thank you
Good news is that we are on day 4 of no dummy though so I think that has been a sucess!

[bluegreenorange]

I also am going to follow replies as a shh/pat newbie. 
Our four week old has been doing a general Eat/Activity/Sleep cycle since week 2.  The times vary due to variation in his wake time between 6-8am.  And some of that may be due to the fact that by the evening both he and I have had a long day, he has a fussy time and a time schedule is out the window and bed and feed times vary - still an Eat Wake Sleep though.  I have been combining about 3 different techniques to get him to sleep and reading through these I've decided I need to commit to shh/pat. I'm not a very patient person, though, so I will need strength at first to commit to 30-45 minutes if needed.

One question I have is that my babe is often quite fussy when ready for a nap.  He often fusses (or sometimes had quite the mad-cry) after swaddling even when I hold him.  What is the best way to handle shh/pat when even holding him doesn't stop the crying?  I may just need to let him finish getting it out while holding.
In the past I've let him cry in his crib for 5 minutes, then tried to calm him down.  I realize now that he should be calm from the beginning.  But there are those moments he seemingly saying he just doesn't want to go to sleep - which probably means he does.

(this may need to be a new thread, but I thought it applied here.)

[deckchariot]

I'll try to keep my responses mostly to cuddlyduck and general shh/pat questions.  If you've got specific questions on your routine, feel free to go ahead and start  a new thread.  I hope that makes sense....if not, let me know

It's totally fine to feed just prior to bedtime - most folks do that.  The key is to make sure she's not asleep when you put her down.  So feed, and then diaper change and wind down is cool.  Bubs organize day and night sleep differently, so that difference in routine doesn't seem to affect them.

In terms of how long to do shh/pat...you have a couple of options - do it til they're calm in the crib, then leave and see what happens (eventually you will want to do this, but maybe not right away), do it til they're asleep and then leave, or do it til they're asleep and then through the first 20 min to ensure that they reach deep sleep before you leave. 

If you start at the last option, you'll gradually just wean off of shh/pat - it will just take longer.  With our dd, we did the shh/pat through the first 20 min.  Then once she was falling asleep pretty quickly with shh/pat, we'd leave once she was asleep.  Then we'd just do shh/pat in the wind down and put her in the bed.  With #2, we are going to try the reverse = do it in the wind down and leave her if she's calm, then we'll intervene more if we need to.  so it's really a personal choice, and depends on how well your bub takes to shh/pat.

In terms of which book to get - I always recommend starting with Secrets of the Baby Whisperer.  It's tempting to get "BW solves all your problems" first, but I find that folks who do that are missing vital information from the first book that really helps you understand your bub better.  Fundamentally, BW is all about respecting and knowing your bub - it's not a quick fix solution, and the temptation with BWSAYP is to treat it like that.  But Secrets really helps you to understand the broader concept.  Does that help?

And remember, EASY is NOT  a schedule, it is a routine, so the times will vary from day to day - always go by your bub's bues.  He/she may not be able to handle the "average" A time - they may need more or less.  Crying before sleeps (and NWs) often indicates OT.  Here's a guideline for A times: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.0  and another helpful reminder on adjusting A times because of short naps:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=128419.0

hth
michelle