How do I get out of this weird cycle (LO is 14.5 months)?

[Mjaz]

Still chugging along with the 2-1.  This week I have written every single thing down and was amazed to see quite a cycle - can you help me figure it out?  Is it an OT/UT cycle?  We're bouncing between 12 hour total sleep days and 14+ hour total sleep days!

Sat night = 10.5 hour night (total for day ~12)
Sun = 4:20 A resulted in a 2 hour nap - went with one nap, early BT and got a 12:20 night (total for day ~14.20)
Mon = 4:40 A resulted in a 1 hour nap, 4:40 A (refusal) resulted in a 30 min pm nap - got a 10.5 hour night (total for day ~12)
Tue = 4 A resulted in a 1 hour nap, 4 A (refusal) resulted in a 30 min pm nap - got a 10.5 hour night (total for day ~12)
Wed = 4:10 A resulted in a 1:45 nap, 3:50 = 38 min pm nap - got a 12:10 night (total for day ~14:30)

After looking at this, I thought maybe after the 12+ nights, he needs a much longer A?  So I did 5 hours this morning and prayed for a long nap so we could do a 1-nap day.  Nope.  1 hour.  Tried to get back down for 30 minutes, but he just laid there with his eyes wide open :/

How do I break this?  It seems that he has to have a very low overall sleep day in order to have a really good day?  I want all 14+ days - is that too much to ask!?  Ha ha.

Please advise   Thanks, ladies. 
Melinda

[ikesmummy]

I'm not sure that with Keaton it was this up and down but we were defiantly alternating between days with more than average and day with less. I was doing one nap days when we had late wake ups and then 2 nap days when we had earlier wake ups. I am suddenly finding ow that he actually has less sleep on two nap days and then on one nap days he is having really long naps (2.5-3hrs).

I think in our case I didn't change anything t just changed, maybe it is as they are uping there A times??? Hope that someone else has some advice or that it sorts it's self out for you really soon.

[Tweakster]

I want all 14+ days - is that too much to ask!?  Ha ha.

Hey there kiddo, sorry to hear that little E is still playing his fun sleep games.  You got an updated pic for us? :-)

Um yes, too much to ask at this age.  You are looking at 13-14 hrs in total - more than 14 and I think you are looking at a high sleep needs I think and even though E can tack onto his nights, I don't think he's high needs.

He's self-regulating it seems, if you want a more stable approach then you may consider just pushing the 1 nap or doing your two naps and living with a slightly shorter night.  I would try for 4.5 A and 1 nap since your Sunday looks like a pretty decent day there.  

[Mjaz]

Hey ladies,
OK, well if can't have 14 hour days, can I get some consistency somehow?  He's so much easier to be around on the 14+ hour days!  Today after the one hour am nap, he completely refused pm nap.  So we're going with a 6pm BT.  Sigh. 

Yes, Wendy, Sunday did look good, but that long nap was after a 10.5 hour night...the question is why can't I get a solid one nap on a 12.5 night - like last night....I did an A of 5 hours!

I guess it could be worse.  Actually, I KNOW it could be worse.  I just feel like I'm so close to figuring it out!

Melinda

[ikesmummy]

Somewhere on the site recently I was reading someone had averaged day and night sleep over 7 days, maybe if you did that you could work out how much he really needs in 24 hours and then from that try and work out what you think is reasonable to aim for on both day and night sleep.

So for example if he is averaging 13.5 hrs in any 24 you could maybe start aiming for 11hrs at night and then 2.5 in naps.

I defiantly think the inconsistency and predictability during the 2-1 is what makes it so hard.

P.s - love the photo of your lo, stare at his eyes each time I see one of your posts.

[Mjaz]

Can I ask your opinion on something I'm trying to figure out:

If I know a successful first A time after a 10.5 hour night is about 4 hours, what would you guess it would be after a 12 hour night?  Do you think it would be significantly more or no?  We've had a couple of 12 hour nights in a row here, which is great, but I keep mucking up the first A.  I tried 4:45, 5 and 5:15.  They've all given me 1 hour - 1:10 naps.  The weird thing is that when I try to get him back, he lays there with his eyes WIDE open, motionless.  I rocked him for 30 minutes today, trying to get him back after a 1:10 nap, and he just laid there the whole time with his eyes open.  My gut is that this is his new OT nap.

Thanks, ladies!

[ikesmummy]

Not sure if others will agree but I don't think the A will be much different, doesn't seem to be here anyway. Not sure if this is because longer nights are often catching up on missed sleep from before? I think if he manages well on 4 hrs after a 10.5 hr night which has fully restored him then maybe try 4hrs after the longer night?
I have actually sometimes found that k sometimes needs a shorter first A after a long night sleep, I suppose it depends what has caused the longer sleep in the first place.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Hey Melinda.....

I don't think a 14h day is too much to ask for!   I know Wendy disagrees, but I think it's a fair goal.  We've been doing them over here for months now.  When he does a longer nap, it's a slightly shorter night and vice versa. 

I think looking at things that he's doing the short nap when he gets that CN in the afternoon.  I would just push through to 1 nap.  I would just do early BT on the days where he short naps.  I think if you push the consistency on him, that he'll adjust to it.  IT sounds like he's ready.

I know a lot of LOs like a shorter first A time.  We're doing about 4.5h in the AM (usually after a 12h night) here and then 5 after a 2ish nap.   If it were me, I would pick an AM A time (probably around 4:15 or so it sounds like would be good?) and stick to that.  Maybe I'd give an extra 10 min or so after a longer night but if you're trying to help him get into a routine, it may be that moving is messing with him.  Also, sleep begets sleep, right?  So it may be that he's ready to go down even after a longer night.  Especially if your gut is saying those naps are OT, I'd go with that.

Just my 2 cents.

[Tweakster]

Sorry I misunderstood I thought you meant 14+ hrs sleep in a 24 hr period not a 14 hr day

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Sorry I misunderstood I thought you meant 14+ hrs sleep in a 24 hr period not a 14 hr day

Oh, I thought she did mean 14h total sleep.

[Mjaz]

I did mean 14+h total sleep   If you could see this kid on a 14 total sleep day vs. a 12, you'd understand!  Ha!

So I got confirmation that those 1:10 naps are OT.  Last night we had a 2 hour NW and he did the same thing - laid there with his eyes open, motionless.  Poor guy.  He's down for nap one VERY early, as he was a mess.

I will try picking a first A time of 4:10 or so and sticking with it regardless on the night - thanks for your input, ladies.  So appreciated!

Melinda

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Good luck, Melinda.  Keep us posted.

[Mjaz]

Thanks, Kate.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

ps - 12h total makes for a sad boy over here, too.

[Tweakster]

We've been doing them over here for months now.

It's not really a disagree or agree thing at all.  Just mere opinions :-)

I think the thing to remember is that their sleep needs change the older they get - something that worked for months may change at any given time.  You normally see a small shift at around 15 mths and then by 18 mths they are completely on 1 nap and most are doing ~13 in a 24.  I was just meaning that 14+ (the plus being the key element) may actually be a really high standard that LO will never reach.  There are not many LO that do more than 2 hrs of napping and more than 11 at night at this age.  You find them fluctuating: if they are on 2 naps they are normally doing a short AM (20-30 mins) and a longer PM (1.5) or vice versa then 11-12 at night.  Or if they are already on 1 nap most are doing 2 hr nap plus 11 at night.