5.5mos old bfing q2.5-3 hrs!

[bensmuma]

This could be long but I'll try to keep it short...my dd is 5.5mos (4mos,1wk corrected). In the past month we've been battling something starting with crying at the breast (since resolved). So I've thought bottle preference (which she gets a few days a week when I'm at work), low supply (since resolved with feungreek), perhaps a growth spurt or the need to transition to 3-4hrs. So I've tackled all the issues and started the 3-4hr transition...and here we are in the middle of the biggest problem. She wants to nurse MORE often! I have a great supply now so I know it's not lack of milk. When she takes a bottle she'll easily go 3.5 hrs. And she's waking 2-3 times a night! At 3mos she was sttn. What's going on here? I'm tired and need a solution

[~ Vik ~]

The 4mo growth spurt is a BIGGIE, so that could be having an impact if you're still in it.  Could you post what your routine looks like? And are you feeding to sleep before naps? When she wakes at night is she taking a full feed each time?

[bensmuma]

Here's our routine...or something like it depending on what time she wakes up etc. I don't breast feed to sleep, never have. I have fed her before a nap sometime because that's just where the "E" fell. But not asleep to crib. At night she wakes and I've always fed her because as I preemie I've always given her the benefit of the doubt. And she hasn't always woken at night, before 3mos (calendar) she was sttn. She has never woken up crying, ever...just babbling then it sometimes just gets more high pitched when she really means it Last night she woke at 11, 3 and 550. Ate a full feed at 11 but not the other 2 times. I could see that she was using me to sleep! So here's the routine.

0630 E
0815 S ALWAYS 45min nap here, have tried lenghtening, shortening
0900 A
0930 E
1045 S Again almost always a 45min nap
1130 A
1245 E
1315 S We sometimes get lucky here with a 1.5-2hr nap
1515 A
1600 E
1715 S 45min nap
1800 A
1900 E
1930 S

Let me know what I can change. Oh and she's both bottle and breast fed since i work.

Thanks!
 

[~ Vik ~]

Your routine looks pretty good to me - and those 45m naps are largely developmental.  Your best bet if you want some help there is to post in naps or easy (I'm definitely not the best at routine tweaking!).  The only thing I could suggest would be trying a dream feed (not sure if you have in the past or not) to see if that would help you get a longer stretch.

Another possibility is that she's waking for another reason - could she be teething?  Room too warm or cold?  Here's an FAQ with a list of reasons that a baby might wake at night:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52878.0  And here's a link from kellymom.com with ways to reduce night nursings:  http://www.kellymom.com/bf/weaning/weaning-night.html

One rule of thumb that I used for night feedings (other than during growth spurts or illness, then all bets were off) was if they went X time during the day, then they could go the same at night.  So if Dylan went 3.5h between feeds during the day, his last feed was around 730:
If he woke at 10 (so 2.5h since last feed) I would try to settle another way (modified shh/pat for us)
If he woke at 1045 or later (so 3h15m or more since last feed) to me that was close enough so I would feed

Not sure if that's helpful?

[MamaCat]

is she on solids? JJ is starting solids tomorrow! early but i think he's ready. perhaps she is too? that is a reason night wakings can increase at this age altho i'm not sure on the advice for prems. a general rule of thumb is double birth weight which of course she may not be yet and then showing interest in food etc.
PS vikki, thanks for the info, useful for me too xxx

[bensmuma]

Hey Ladies, thanks for the posts. I don't see any signs of teething yet, looking everyday! I also feed feed at night when she goes at least as long as she goes during the day...except on those days when it's under 3 hours! Now shes only waking 2x a night and eating every 3 during the day. Since she's already waking now around 1030-12 I don't think starting the dreamfeed will do any good since I already feed then. Mamcat, she's not on solids yet, but funny you ask because in the last few days she's been eyballing my food like crazy and getting super excited when she sees it! We're off to the Dr. tomorrow morning for a check up so I'm going to ask about readiness. She can't sit up on her own yet and because of the preemie thing I'm just concerned about the development of her digestive system. So have you started your lo on solids early? How's it going? See any changes??

[MamaCat]

well first day (sunday) he loved it, he leaned toward the spoon, grabbed my hand and opened his mouth for it. i couldnt believe it! we have it on video and i've watched it a million times already but yesterday, monday, he wasnt interested at all, pursed his lips and turned his head away so i just left it (dont want it to be negative experience) i'll keep offering breakfast until he takes it every day before intro'ing a second meal. i'm in no rush as i hadnt planned to solids this early but he's hungry. He has slept better on sun and mon than he has in months, no changes to nights but i'd say that so far thats just a coincidence! lol!

so i'm not very experienced with prems but my nephews were 5 and 6 pounders and my sis-in-law started them on solids at 4 months and fed them in a bouncer chair (jj is sitting up in hichair) i think its up to you really. everyone does diff things. you could always just try once if you feel comfortable to do so and see how strong the tongue reflex is. if its still strong then leave for another fortnight. i totally get concerns re digestive system but there is a little new research showing that early intro solids coudl be better for digest system and a huge study is being conducted here in lil old perth about this. NOT that that is a reason to do it if you dont feel comfortable or that your LO isn't ready! i have to say people have been telling me for weeks to give him solids and i was resisting and i didnt feel ready!!! i'm only offereing one cube of pureed organic avocado (with EBM) a day. avocado much gentler than cereals. prob not in season for you, maybe still growing florida?

[~ Vik ~]

Good luck at the doctor's tomorrow! I'm glad that you're asking about readiness for solids - even though she's 5.5mo, she should have still been inside for over a month of that! Let us know how it goes!

[bensmuma]

Well got my weeks mixed up! Thought all of my apts were this week, but they're next! The bad news here is she was up all night it seemed! 4 x 45-1hr naps during the day, bed at 730, up at 1022, 01something, 03something o4something, 06something and 730. ANd she didn't eat a full meal at ANY time, but nor did I feed her each time. I think I skipped the 3 and definitely the 6. Even at 0730 she hardly ate. I think I'm going to have to push her to transition soon? What do you guys think? She's not eating enough to go longer I think. I'm so tired today. Thanks.

[MamaCat]

Vicki has a point, she was meant to be inside a bit longer so you do want to carefully consider solids in case her insides are more immature than a full term 5.5mo. i really dont know a lot about prems. Also unless she's double her birthweight, at least, i wouldn't consider it at all. also, solids can sometimes make sleeping worse for individual babies.

Well, that sounds like a rubbish night!!! you poor thing. you know JJ did the 45min nap thing but i played around with his A time and found that sometimes if i actually kept him up even when i thought i just put him to bed that helped. I mean you're playing with fire but since she's sleeping so badly it might be worth a try? better day sleep means better night sleep...

Lastly, i dont have anything super helpful to say unfortunately but around 3 months old babies often go through a phase of increased night wakings. It appears to be developmental. maybe she's going through that a little late? JJ was just like your LO because he didnt sleep much during the day either so some days i'd get him down for 5 or even 6 short naps! and it was torture and i was exhausted and in tears half the time! dream feeding doesnt make a huge diff for us, i've started again to see if it will help and last night jj still woke at 130, 215 and 530. but you should definitely try it. and try it for at least a few nights in a row. one of the mods suggested 1-2 weeks to me. hth xxx

[~ Vik ~]

That is quite a night!  Could she be teething?  Did you try pain meds?  I know you said earlier that you didn't see any signs, but those things can cause pain moving beneath the gums before you ever see any sign of them.  Might be worth trying pain meds - if you see improvement you know, and if not no harm has been done, kwim?

in case her insides are more immature than a full term 5.5mo

Preemies are more immature than full term babies in general - that's why it's so important to consider adjusted age rather than calendar age when calculating milestones, feeding routines, A times, etc.  They do catch up, and by the time they're running around as toddlers you'd hardly tell the difference, but as babies it's so important to consider it.

How was your day today?  Hoping that tonight is better for you too. xxxx

[bensmuma]

Hi Ladies! So I'm going to give pain meds a try tonight. She's never woken in distress or crying but last night when she woke....lets see 11,3,4,5,630...she wasn't too happy. Something is going on here. Tylenol it is!

Yeah, I'm going to wait on the solid food, though she's starting to seem very interested and eager. She's always taken a reflux med by syringe and now she opens her mouth for it! But we'll still see next week what the Dr. says. My instinct is to wait AND I'm going away for a weekend Dec 3 so don't want to leave dh in charge

We're so used to the 45min naps and she's such a good baby, almost never complains. I've rarely tried to extend unless I thought she really needed it. Some days we're luck and get one really long one in. And I have a 2.5yr old running around...nuff said

Sleep deprivation is the devil! I am the absolute WORST person when I'm sleep deprived! And I'm not a napper...although yesterday I tried but dh and our ds were having issues I couldn't ignore....never any rest for Mom eh? This too shall pass right? RIGHT??? 

[MamaCat]

sounds like a plan. jj has short napped since 3 months old (until this week, amazingly, but i wont go into that) and been pretty happy with it; i would try and extend for a week and tweak his EASY and then leave it for a bit. had too for my sanity! so i totally get it. and i didnt even have a toddler!!! so you're doing a great job!!! (i've done the newborn but toddler thing as a nanny,that was hard enough!, and already told my husband we're having a big gap between kids!!)

i'm the same when sleep deprived, i was here ranting last week about how i'd barely slept for months etc we all do it! short naps are often developmental and because she's prem she may not be over that phase yet but could change any time. if she's happy when she wakes but you cant or dont want to resettle her, leave in her in bed until the hour 'nap' is finished. this is often a gentle way to let their body clock know they need to sleep longer while giving you extra Y time, or toddler time also helps you stay on EASY.

in a month or two when she's older and you've started solids things will be totally different and then you'll have the challenge of managing her longer naps with toddlers routine! see if you can get some naps on the weekends to tide you over this phase. i do hope the night waking improves but like i said, jj and lots of other babies go through a phase of doing that around 3 months so hopefully it'll be over soon! lots of love xxx

[bensmuma]

So..yesterday AF was visiting and I had supply issues in the evening...she skipped one meal aentirely...would only take an ounce from the bottle, but was content enough. Gave Tylenol, was alseep by 730 or so, woke at 11, ate then didn't wake again until 6! I tried to get away without feeding at that time but she wasn't having it. So maybe teething IS an issue here!