BF problems and milk supply/Giving up slowly...

[LifeGiver]

Hi ladies.

My BF relationship with my DD has been a hassle since day 1. She was jaundice so even though I tried to wake her up to feed she wouldn't wake up. Then after some days in the lightbed she came back to the ward with me and she'd fall asleep at the breast after feeding 5 minutes. And this 5 minutes thing lasted until she was 2.5 months! It was almost 1 hour struggling with her to get her to feed for 15 minutes...
Well, she had slow weight gain. Doctor told me to supplement, I said I'd insist in BF some more to see if now it would work and she didn't put on ANY weight that week...
Talked to a BF consultant, worked on my supply (it was low because she didn't feed well for the first weeks): taking Floradix, Fenugreek, Fennel tea, double pumping and using SNS. It was a hard week but it seemed to be working.

Then she got sick and wasn't feeding well again... then we went on holidays and because we were driving most of the time we ended up giving her some bottles daily... Now my supply (specially in the evening) doesn't seem to be meeting her needs anymore! 2 days ago she fed from both breasts and still took 60ml (2oz) from the bottle after that!

Now here I am again, she's 3.5mo and I don't know if I have the patience to work on my supply again. I couldn't start EASY with her because I always thinks she is hungry! And my DH is not very supportive with EASY and EBF as well... He's all for "give her formula"... Just to add on all the problem she never seemed to have latched on properly. Up to now I can't get rid of the "click" noise. It's not every feed though, it seems sometimes she does latch on correctly but it's not always... Can I teach an older baby to latch on?

I have planned to BF until she's 6 or 7mo... I'm still pondering if it's worth all the work to boast my supply again if I won't BF for much longer...

Thoughts? Suggestion? Support?

[Vicku]

Hi there!

You've had a lot to work against there and I think you've done great to stick with it and not give up. Well done mama for giving your LO such a good start despite it being difficult
Whether it's worth doing more or not... that is a very personal choice I think, and I'm not going to tell you what you should be doing, but there are certainly many benefits for both the baby and the mum to continue BF Since you've worked so hard for this so far, and as you're posting here for advice, I get the feeling that you would like to continue. Is it possible for you to see the LC again? It is definitley possible to change and work on latch with an older baby, I'm doing it right now with my nearly 14mo as we're having problems with new teeth.

2 days ago she fed from both breasts and still took 60ml (2oz) from the bottle after that!

It actually isn't unusual or a BF baby to have a full feed and then still take a couple of oz from a bottle simply because it is so much easier for them to feed from the bottle, so it is hard to say if your baby really needed those extra oz or not Was she unsatisfied after the BF? If possible I'd try to avoid giving a bottle straight after a BF as a top up as it can quickly teach them that the bottle i easier and after the breast comes the bottle, so it can affect BF and start a bottle preference. doen't necessarliy have to happen, but it could.

Have you explored the Kellymom website? there is lots of good information there. Take a look here http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/index.html lots of links to go into about supply issues.

Also some info on latching http://www.kellymom.com/bf/start/basics/latch-resources.html What seems to be the problem with the latch? Anything else than the clicking? Maybe we can help with some tips..

I'm sorry your DH isn't very supportive of BF. You've been very strong to get so far through all of your issues still and you should be proud of what you've accomplished Now only you can decide how much further you're prepared to go. We will certainly support you and help in all ways we can if you decided to try to build the supply again and stick with BF. Remeber also that it is possible to do mixed feeding (both BM and formula) and still get loads of the benefitds for both you and baby if you don't feel your supply is enough after trying to build it up again. Some info on that here http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=178500.0

What do you think?

[LifeGiver]

Hi Vicku,

Thanks for ur reply! I really needed to feel someone cared!
I've read the topics even before reading ur reply and kellymom.com has been my source of information since I first started having problems...
I guess some of my supply problems has always been emotional... specially regarding DH. Sometimes it seems he thinks I intend to starve her. It seems everyone around me thinks I'm stubborn and I should have given up BF long ago for her wellbeing!
Well, I kinda made a decision... Specially now that she's been sick and vomited, and lost all the weight she has gained in 2 weeks, I will give her some formula to help her try to gain weight more rapidly. So the Bedtime feed and the DF will be formula. If she wakes up at night (when she wakes up it's just once...), after the DF I giver the boob, and all the other day feeds will be BM.
I have a whole drawer of my freezer full of BM because of the 1st time I worked on my supply, but DH insists on giving her formula so I won't fight. But I won't give up BFing her either. If I don't do it now when she's young, when will I do it?!

I'll try to contact the LC again. The bad thing is that the hospital where she attends is not in my town and I don't have the car during the week!

I'm very glad I'll find support here... I just hope my supply doesn't drop again because I'm giving her 2 bottle feeds in a row. I bought a handpump but it doesn't seem to be very efficient, and I'm not very good in handpumping as well... :/

gotta go now. get some time with DH!
God bless

[LifeGiver]

You know what I'm also confused about?!
Hunger cues...
I know that rooting and putting hands to mouth used to be cues (when she was younger at least), but now she roots when she is tired as well and eats her hands the whole day!
I can never be sure if she is hungry. I insist giving her the breast over and over when she wakes up. And as soon as she "is finished" (or I assume so), she is already with her fingers in her mouth... :/

Will I ever be sure? 

[LifeGiver]

Hi girls...
I've recently posted a topic telling all my looong story of BF problems and my doubt if I would really insist on it...
I wanted so much to BF my DD until she was at least 9 months, but with all the slow weight gain issues and a non supportive DH I think I won't make it. I think the DH part is the worst, yesterday he said I was guilty for my baby's slow weight gain because I was stubborn and stuck in this idea of BF while my DD wasn't well...
It's not true, she's healthy despite the weight but I just can't stand him coming home everyday asking me if I've given her bottles after the feeds and if I say no he tells me off...

I'm already combine feeding... If she decides to let go of the breast, it won't be easy for me, but what can I do?! I've already worked on my supply once DH believes that once there is a problem with supply there's no turning back :/

The topic about reasons to be proud comforted me a lot though! Thanks for ur love girls. God bless!

[Tay]

Oh honey, I really feel for you! I would love to be able to tell your DH a 'few things'... My DD was very slow to gain weight, we struggled with BF for lots of reasons (I had to take tablets to help my supply) but still managed to BF until she was 8 months. But I admit, the only way I could do it as because of my mum being supportive and DH not even suggesting I should be giving a bottle, I was so stressed at the time that if he did I would probably just give in, so I totally see why you're struggling.
But you never know... keep on BF and only supplementing with formula after the feeds; your LO might go on the breast for longer than you expect.
Anyway, you have done amazing under the circumstances and if you end up stopping you know you've given your LO a great start!
(and if I'm around your direction I'll go chat to your DH!!! lol)
xxx

[Vicku]

Sorry but I'm actually feeling pretty at your DH for being so unsupportive. If it was me I'm pretty sure I'd end up whacking him over the head with the bottle LOL In all seriousness though, I'm guessing it must be out of total 'uninformedness' (not a word I know ) and just that he doesn't realise how very beneficial BM is for babies. Send him onto Kellymom!
It is very likely that your DD would have been a slow gainer even on formula, and weight gain really isn't the only measure of a healthy thriving baby. I'm sad for you that you aren't getting the recognition and respect you deserve for your efforts and giving so much to your baby and I hope you still can feel proud and happy that you've given your baby the best possible start in the circumstances that you could. {{{{hugs}}}}
Agree with Tay that you can mix feed for a while and get a while longer on BM even if you do not go through a rigorous supply increasing regimen. Keep posting here for support whenever you need honey

[Vicku]

Those hunger cues are mainly reliable for newborns I think. Once they find their hands they are their favourite toys and will be in there most of the day If she's hungry though she'll let you know!

[LifeGiver]

Send him onto Kellymom!

I do send him a lot of things for him to read. He just has a look and says the same "but she needs to grow"...
I'm SO frustrated with all of this.
She is also a terrible feeder. Most of times she doesn't latch on properly so she gets frustrated very easily. I've heard that it's quite normal to have multiple milk ejections, I've never had, probably because she gives up very easily after the milk stops flowing fast.

I think I put my expectations too high as well, and I'm putting on too much weight on my own shoulders.

I'll keep the mixed feeding thing... Let's see where it goes...

[LifeGiver]

I was thinking that hunger may be one of the factors that she's waking up 45min into her naps. It actually started happening when I noticed my supply issues.

I think the problem with the latching is mostly that she slips her tongue past the lips. So when she takes her tongue in again to start sucking again she swallows air. Sometimes it's not just a light click, it's a very loud noise! :/

I was thinking that I might give my supply another try, but if she keeps not having a good latch my efforts will be in vain. It's no use having a lot of milk if the baby doesn't take it...

Thanks again Vicku!

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

I don't know the details of what you've been going through or your efforts with regards to feeding, but what's completely obvious is that you love your daughter and want what's best for her and for your family as a whole.  Yes, it sucks when parts of that family (like your DH) aren't as well-informed or open-minded as we'd hope, but his underlying message is that he loves her and wants what's best for her too.  There are all sorts of ways to nourish a baby.  Yes, I'm of the mentality that "breast is best", but it's not always the ONLY way for everyone.  You're doing the best you can by giving your daughter what breastmilk she'll take, and if you have to supplement (whether it's for a fear of a lack of weight gain or in order to appease your somewhat short-sighted husband), then so be it.  Worse things have happened to babies! Any breastmilk for any amount of time is better than none at all, so you're ahead of the game there!

I guess what I'm saying is that you're doing a wonderful job and an amazing balancing act, given your circumstances, and I have no doubt that your lo will do just fine.  Sending {{hugs}}.

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Just read this.....

Clicking is definitely not normal, particularly at this age and especially if she's had it all along.  If you can see the LC again, that would be great. Did she consider something like tongue-tie when she saw you in the past?

The other thing to remember is that between 3 and 4 months, it's a funny time for breastfeeding and supply.  There are some growth spurts at around 3 months and sometimes again at around 4.  Plus your supply tends to settle in.  I remember my breasts seemed much less full and were getting downright floppy at this time, and my lo's would pop off because there was simply less pressure in there, it seemed.  I had to work a lot with breast compression and bouncing back and forth between breasts for feeds.  It was a lot like building up supply during a growth spurt (we'd usually do right, left, right and left again for every feed).

Anyway, just some thoughts to consider - this tends to be a tough age for breastfeeding for a lot of moms - even those that DON'T have supply issues.

[my3girlsjde]

Just wanted to drop off some quick hugs and support.
I went through a lot of the same issues with E and scared that my supply was falling and trying to follow what seemed like endless hunger cues. I know she wasn't getting full feeds and it was short and frequent feeds all the time.
I agree with much of previous posters - if you get back to your LC, you may be able to get these latching issues resolved quickly.
Will post more after - gotta get a lo up to bed
You're a great Mummy who deserves a lot of credit for going this long. Bf'ing is challenging enough without adding in extra challenges.

[Vicku]

Erin and vicki have added some great points! It has been a very tricky time for both my LOs around this age too.
I would also try to see the LC again if you can as latching issues really is best helped by IRL support by someone who can watch you and be there in person to help.

[Vicku]

Hi again!

I think I put my expectations too high as well, and I'm putting on too much weight on my own shoulders.

Hugs hun! that is one thing to watch, that you do not feel too stressed out about all this and start to feel too much weight on your shoulders. At the end of the day, a happy mum is the most important for a happy baby, not how or what you feed I said what I said simply because I've gotten the message that you really wanted to continue BF and would feel very sad to give up, but I by no means meant that you should break your back and take on too much

Fwiw, I've never had more than one letdown per feed with both my children, apart form the odd times that they fell asleep at the breast and continued comfort nursing for quite a while, and doesn't happen often here. I think it really varies between women.

As you now have two threads running and both are active I will mergen them together for you so you have all the advice and support in one thread. Makes it easier for you to keep track