Are we nap dropping, OT or what?

[*Becky*]

Me again 

Been trying to figure this out but getting nowhere tbh.

H is 28 months. Had a great month over xmas. He finally accepted the gro-clock and was sleeping about 1-1.15 in the day and 11.5-12 at night - happy days   

About a week ago we had some strange NWings where he was waking around 4-5am and talking, banging his legs on the mattress etc. He would then go back to sleep till about 7am. I have never ever known him to have UT NwWings but that is what i assumed they were. Around the same time his wake ups went from 6.30-7am to 6-6.30am. Naps were the same.

We tried a later night which did get rid of the NWing but the mornings stayed early and the naps stayed at about 1 hour.

For the last few days he has been going to sleep at 7pm and waking around 6am and then napping an hour in the day which is quite a drop from what he was doing.

He looks completely shattered and now calls for me from the second he wakes in the am until I get him so today 40 mins of shouting 'mummy'

BUT he is in a good mood most of the time and does not fight bedtime or act OT.

Yesterday we were out and although it was a 6.10am wake up and he had nursery he was only able to sleep 45 mins in the car. I had him in bed and asleep at 6.45pm which is early for him and he still woke at 6.10am whereas before he would have pulled off closer to 12 hours on that kind of day sleep.

So....what is this all about. Is he just OT but handling it well? How do I manage that seeing as he will not nap for that long?

Or is this just him getting tired as a result of needing to cut the nap right back.

Or is this just nursery talking again as he has been back for about 3 weeks (only 2 mornings) but it seems to have a big effect on his sleep.

I know he is not getting enough sleep and he really does look tired.

Not teething, not sick although has a runny nose which tbh is quite normal for him
Sorry this is a real essay  - thanks for reading.

[babybarr]

What happens if he doesn't have a nap Becky?  Is that wortha shot for a day to see what he does at night? Even if you don't stick with it iyswim?

[*Becky*]

yes he has never not napped as i am too soft and always make sure he gets 'something' in the car or the buggy. The last time he only got 20 mins we were up for 45 mins in the night but it was a day my mum had him and he is crazy OS after that kind of day so could have been that. I guess we could try.

I was a bit worried today as if he is only going to do 30/45 min day naps he def needs to pull off more than 11 hours night sleep.

[Grace's Mummy]

Perhaps it would be worth cutting right back on the nap and seeing what happens. It may be that he is sleeping too much in the day to get a proper night. Even if you were to cut it back to 20 - 30 mins for a week or two and see after that. For our LO it takes at least two weeks of something to see if it has an effect. If cutting the nap back doesn't work, you could try and get rid of it altogether, although he does seem quite young for that - but maybe not. I am no expert and our LO is way off that so I don't really know!

I do hope he starts getting the sleep he needs. And you too!

[my3girlsjde]

We went through something similar at this age with our girls. We just cut our nap after 4 attempts throughout the past year. IMHO, it does seem like a phase that the girls went through and they adjusted back with little problem after a month or so. It seemed to happen after travel, the big girl bed transition, new baby etc. I remember thinking that they might be having different dreams about their new experiences that they were trying to figure out as weird as it sounds.

We did find that cutting back the nap to 1hr helped loads.

I have noticed that when making sleep changes with them (and I know every child is different), that it takes a few weeks for their 'clock' to adjust kwim? So if you cut the nap back or make a shorter day or whatever, it may take some time to see a difference.

HTH

[*Becky*]

thank you...well today I let him have 1.5 which is the max we give as he was up at 6.10am, had 40 mins only yesterday, nursery stimulation etc etc. We shall see what tomorrow brings. Back in Dec he was nap refusing big style and I thought it was the end of naps and then he settled into a great routine again so maybe it is a phase. Who knows really. My gut feeling says he is not ready to give up the nap yet and that nursery is playing a part as he gets so OS and it kinda throws the day out, well make that the week!
He is always out like a light as soon as he goes to bed at night.

[*Becky*]

awake around 6am, maybe slightly before so guess 1.5 is too long. Weird thing is he had lost his seal so i went in to give it to him and he was then quiet until his light came on. Don't think he was sleeping deeply but he was dozing.....UT?? very strange.

Totally stumped really so if anyone has any ideas please help. Capping the nap does not seem to get more night sleep tbh but maybe i need to do it for 5 days or so and see as each day the nap is a little different - what do people think....any ideas?

[babybarr]

Becky one thing I have learnt from my crazy sleeper is you can do exactly the same thing twice and have very different outcomes.  I think you can't say due to long nap on one day that's why you got a good night or whatever at this age.  There is so much more going on....

(You may like to look at Henry's ticker too.....it says he's 8mths until he's 2! )

[*Becky*]

I just gave him an hour today...guess i will do it for 5 days and see if it does anything. I am struggling with this. I need all the rest i can get and if it means a longer night then yes great but if not then we are just cutting sleep.

he is not fighting bedtime like most I read about seem to do when they need a nap cut but his mornings are getting significantly earlier.

I hate waking him from naps but i remember thinking this when we were at the end of 2:1 and looking back it was the right thing to do. Guess i am just looking for reassurance.

sigh...

[Grace's Mummy]

I agree with Laura - I have also learned that you can do things twice, with completely different outcomes. It is amazing! You think you have it sorted, and they go and do something else! For us, I need to do things for a week or two, maybe even more to see any results at all. I would try the same thing for as long as it usually takes for you to see results and then see where you are. It may be a couple of weeks, but then you may have a clearer idea as to what is going on. Have you tried having the nap earlier in the day? It may not make a difference, but it may make him tired enough to sleep through and not wake so early. I really am no expert, so hopefully someone who knows will give some ideas!

[kayra]

it could be just a phase Becky. DS has been a bit all over the place with his naps and nights recently but I'm sure that he's not ready to cut yet. Are you potty training Ben? I know that that's been affecting DS's sleep. Have you tried putting him down for a nap a bit earlier or later? I imagine nursery does play a role in things too, just the difference in stimulation would effect things I'd think.
I hate waking DS from his naps and always prefer a longer nap and a shorter night (i.e. putting him to bed a bit later). Do you think that could be an option?

[*Becky*]

Thanks kayra
yes i did wonder about that but he generally only naps about 1.15 anyway so can't really get a particularly later bedtime on that which is why i thought i would just cap it. Do you see what i mean? If he would do 1.5 or more on a regular basis then i would be happy to move bedtime later.

[kayra]

if he's only doing 1.15 normally, do you think capping it to 1 hr would really make such a difference? If you wanted a longer nap and later bedtime you could try putting him down a bit later for his nap. I had to do that with DS a while ago, his naps seem to be getting better now but if he goes through a funny phase again I might try that again (I'd rather a 1.5+ nap and 11 hr night than a shorter nap and 12hr night).

[babybarr]

Becky the first sign that my friend's DS needed his nap cutting was he was back to EWs - not saying this *is* the case for H but I think you need to stick with the 1hr naps for a few days and just see - if it doesn't work you change it up, hard I know.

[*Becky*]

yes i am going to do that....he did half an hour more night last night after 1 hour and about 5.15/20 after the nap which is more than i usually give him. Seems a long day with a short nap but i will try that again and see if it works..i guess his sleep needs have dropped and i am still expecting what he did a year ago!