I need some help please!! not sure if she is hungry or not

[mysweetgirl]

 

Hi there

My daughter is going to be 4 months on Feb 24. I have her on a loose EASY schedule, trying to feed her between 3-3/12 hours and I can usually extend her first nap for 2 hours. So, Her EASY looks something like this


wake 7- 730
eat 730- 8
A until 830-9
S 9-11
E 11
A 11- 1230-1
S 1- 3
E 3
A 3- 430-5
Catnap 5-545
Bedtime routine 6-7
Bedtime 7 pm

She wakes  every 3 hours at night. She was consistently going 6-7 hours at her first stretch but for the past 5 days she wakes between 1030 and 1130 and then every 2-3 hours after. I have tried feeding her more often in the day incase she wasnt getting enough cals during the day but it doesnt make any difference at night. I know she is able to go longer (she isnt a newborn anymore!) But, I feel so badly if she is hungry and I dont feed her. I have tried shh/patt her back to sleep for the first waking at 11 pm and it worked once. But what if she is truly hungry? She does usually take a full feed in the middle of the night, but not always.

i am worried I am starting a bad habit with her. I BF her out of desperation, exhaustion and not knowing if she is hungry or not. Plus it is easier than sh/patt for an hour while she screams.

I would be willing to shh/pat her out of this habit if I knew she wasnt needing the food in the middle of the night. I dont know what to do. When she looks at me and screams to get picked up and fed I feel SO BAD!! What if I am starving her?

What do you ladies think? I need some help here. Am I wrong to feed her every time she wakes? Or how many times and when is it ok to feed her? I know she can go a long time without eating a month ago...so why not now? I cant get her to eat more during the day. She just wont take more. She is Bf with an occasional bottle of formua before bed. Growth spurt?? I am not getting any sleep and I am so tired and it is hard with the other kids. I cant even get back to sleep in between feedings anymore. I dont want to let her CIO but I dont know what else to do. I sometimes think it is the only way. But I dont want to do it. I really dont. I just cant handle her looking at me wondering why I am not BF her and she just wants to eat and cuddle....but I want to sleep!!

Sorry for rambling. I am so confused about what to do.
Thank you for any advice you may have for me/

[mmom]

I am going to come back to you, since I don't have time to write.  But I wanted to let you know that there is a major growth spurt at 4 months.  I also found with both of my LOs that during this time I started to get more NWs and sleep went wonky for us.  If you are trying everything to get your LO back to sleep and feeding is the only thing that will do, then it may be hunger.

[mysweetgirl]

Thank you Kara

But my LO wont be 4 months for another week and a half. Could this still be a growth spurt?
I should also mention that she wakes a basically the same times each night. Around 11, 2, 5 and 7. With some variation. Does this mean it isnt a growth spurt and is habit? I just dont know!

Should I try pat/shh first then BF her if she doesnt settle? I thought if I started pat/shh that I should commit to it and not give in by picking her up and feeding her otherwise she would learn to cry until I give in.

I am truly so confused about how to straighten this out. I want to be the one in control here and decide which direction to go with this. Although if she is really hungry I definitely want to feed her!!! It is really hard making decisions in the heat of the moment. I guess that is what Tracy means by accidental parenting. I guess I just dont want to accidental parent.

If it is a growth spurt should it help to feed her more during the day? Or would that not make a difference? I am going to try to feed her a bit more today but it can be hard to get her to eat more when she doesnt feel like it!

I know I raised a few different issues. I hope someone can help me sort though this!

Look forward to your response

[mumma2cubs]

Hi there,

I guess the one thing to bare in mind is a growth spurt usually ends whereas a habit doesn't until broken. And it is very possible for growth spurts to happen just before or after the actual 4th month (if that makes sense)

Is your DD on solids yet? IF so, what foods and how often? When she's feeding at night is she taking full feeds? Does she sleep independantly or relies on props like a dummy?

[hjrmom01]

My lo is 6 months (4 mo adjusted) and she just recently did the same thing. She had been giving me better stretches and then all of the sudden it was getting shorter and shorter and shorter and she was going about 4 hrs after bed and then every 3 after that.  I just fed her. At her 6mo appt I asked our pediatrician about it and she said she thought she was having a GS because her length and head shot up and her weight was catching up.  She does have reflux and some GI/feeding issues, though.

So, I don't know if it's 'right' or not but I just fed her. I figured, if she could go longer stretches before, she will again. And if she's genuinely hungry, I'm not going to deny her just because she had given longer stretches of sleep. I don't think it's fair to try and settle for an hour only to turn around and feed her.

[mmom]

The PP is right in that a growth spurt doesn't have to be at exactly 4 months.  A lot of us saw it at 16 weeks or around then.

It sounds like your LO is BF and it wouldn't be surprising if your LO is just hungry when he wakes.  If you are questioning hunger and feel like it is habit, you can always try to get him back to sleep first.  If you fail, then you can feed.  At this age, I focused on 1 feed and tried to give that up. But if my LO was hungry, he would just wake 1 hour later anyway, so that is how I realized that he was waking out of hunger and not habit. 

I know that sound conflicting and you are right, if you are going to try and get him back to sleep, then really try.  But at this age, hunger is often the culprit. 

[mysweetgirl]

I guess the one thing to bare in mind is a growth spurt usually ends whereas a habit doesn't until broken. And it is very possible for growth spurts to happen just before or after the actual 4th month (if that makes sense)

This has been going on almost a week and I thought I had read somewhere that a growth spurt only lasts a few days? Is this right?

Is your DD on solids yet? IF so, what foods and how often? When she's feeding at night is she taking full feeds? Does she sleep independantly or relies on props like a dummy?

No, I am not starting solids until 6 months. When she wakes at night she usually takes a full feed. I would say about 90% of the time she does. Last night she woke at 11 pm and I shh/pat hr and she fell back asleep in 15 mins with a lot of crying and woke again an hour later so I BF her and she had a full feed.

She is really good at falling asleep on her own. She doesnt have a paci and no comfort item yetbut she has self soothing methods which work for her (really cute too. She puts her arm over her face and sucks on her arm and feels her hair)

[mysweetgirl]

So, I don't know if it's 'right' or not but I just fed her. I figured, if she could go longer stretches before, she will again. And if she's genuinely hungry, I'm not going to deny her just because she had given longer stretches of sleep. I don't think it's fair to try and settle for an hour only to turn around and feed her.

I know what you mean hjrmom . Last night I tried shh/pat to see if she was hungry and if I could get another stretch of sleep out of her. She only slept one hour and then was up again. So, I fed her. It didnt seem fair and I felt horrible knowing she was probably hungry the first time she woke up. Tonight I am not sure yet what to do. 2 nights ago I shh/pat her and she slept for another 3 hours. So, I dont know. But the bottom line is I dont want to deny her Bf if she is truly hungry. I hate thinking she needs something and I ignore her requests!

[mysweetgirl]

It sounds like your LO is BF and it wouldn't be surprising if your LO is just hungry when he wakes.  If you are questioning hunger and feel like it is habit, you can always try to get him back to sleep first.  If you fail, then you can feed.  At this age, I focused on 1 feed and tried to give that up. But if my LO was hungry, he would just wake 1 hour later anyway, so that is how I realized that he was waking out of hunger and not habit. 

I know that sound conflicting and you are right, if you are going to try and get him back to sleep, then really try.  But at this age, hunger is often the culprit.

Kara, I actually did exactly this last night. She woke at 11 pm, I shh/pat her 15 mins and she fell asleep but I could tell she was not "settled". Then an hour later she was awake again. Then every 3 hours after that. But it seems like if this is a growth spurt then it is going on a long time. How long would these feedings increase if it is a growth spurt? I am fine doing this for a period of time if she needs the extra cals but I dont want it to become a long term habit. She has been doing it for a week now.

I try to give her the extra cals in the day time but she just wont eat more. DO you think I should maybe try to drop the before midnight feed or continue it for awhile? She was sleeping right through until 2-3 am for the last couple months!!

Thanks

[hjrmom01]

our sleep pattern like that lasted about a week, maybe a bit over that?  It seemed like the feeds just kept getting earlier and earlier and earlier.  But she was taking full feeds, just like yours. 

Do you cluster feed in the evening?  I know my DD has an issue with eating extra volume during the day so upping her feeds is really hard, and because of her DGE feeding more often sometimes backfires. But doing a feed before bath and then the rest after bath, even with just a bit extra, usually helps. We don't do a DF either. Do you, I can't remember?

[mysweetgirl]

I do clusterfeed in the evenings most of the time at 5 pm and 7 pm. I dont dreamfeed though.

It is encouraging to know that your LO went through a growth spurt for over a week. I am fine if this is a growth spurt. But not if it is going to continue indefinitely. It makes me so cranky to get up an hour after I go to bed! I need my sleep or I dont function well. If only she would sleep past midnight!

[mmom]

I too felt like the growth spurt was long. I also felt that sleep got wonky in general, despite having a good night sleeper prior.

[hjrmom01]

I, too, felt like it was FOREVER...and sleep did get crazy here, too!

[mysweetgirl]

This is how last night went:

asleep 7 pm
fussed off and on until 1030 when she woke up completely (I BF her)
awake 1230 (BF her)
awake 330 (BF her)
awake 530 (BF her)
awake 715 got up for the morning
8 am BF her

she doesnt eat this much during the day! If this is a growth spurt wouldnt she want to eat this much during the day as well? Surely she can last 3-4 hours at night if it is a growth spurt??? I try to feed her this much in the day and she wont eat this often!!

I considered teething but she isnt fussy during the day. I am not sure if she is teething. .
I also wondered about reflux because we took her off Prevacid but she is sleeping better at naptime and she doesnt seem fussy or anything. the pediatrician suggested trying to take her off Prevacid because we were not seeing any difference when she was on it. She spits up A LOT but as far as reflux pain I dont think she seems uncomfortable. When I go into her at night as soon as she hears my footsteps she quiets down. She has mostly full feedings when she wakes. Maybe a bit shorter than the day time (she only feeds about 5 mins in the day...I have a strong let down and a lot of milk..I try to get her to eat longer but she wont even if I stretch feeding times to 4 hours) so her feeds at night are about 3-5 mins.

I also considered soy/dairy intolerance as I had stopped eating both when she had bad excema  as a newborn and it has cleared up. I slowly put both dairy and soy back into my diet and hadnt noticed any difference in her ...so I thought we were in the clear. I am not sure that this is the cause. Nevertheless I am going to stop eating both for a few days-one week and see if there is a change.

I am not getting any sleep at all.

[story3girl]

When I first started having night waking problems, I read on the La Leche page that a lot of babies have trouble with their eating at 4 months because of overstimulation.  They're much more aware and the world is just so interesting that they don't want to eat, kwim?  Then at night, it's dark and quiet and snuggly, so they catch up on their eating then.

If that seems possible, could you consider finding ways to make daytime BF more boring?  Like, go into a quiet room and dim the lights?  Not too much because you don't want LO to fall asleep, but enough that they're not pulling off to look around the room.

Could be worth a try.