5 am wakings for 8month old,previously good sleeper!!!

[adelegarland]

please can any one shed some light on where im going wrong???
Used to have problems with the 45 min nap thing but that has been sorted past 2 months and lo used to sleep from 7.30pm to 6.30 am,all was fine when dropped eve cat nap and would pretty consistently give me two 1.5 hour naps in day or with occasional 45min nap and then a 2hour.
He has been teething but seeemed to cause no issues as didnt even realise first tooth had erupted till my mother found it!
Stopped b/f at 7months and has been on solids since 5 months and most days can prob keep awake time at least 3 hours as when would get up at half six wouldnt always  take first nap at 9-9.30 would quite happily stay up till 10am then go down no fuss.
Did some a/p other night and gave 6oz bottle at 5am when he wook and he did go babck down till 7am
however partner tried same thing this morn and didnt work,i know shouldnt be getting into habit of this anyway,will post his easy for yesterday and day before,also do give dose of pain meds before bed and is bathed and massaged every night.
DAY BEFORE YEASTERDAY
A-5.30.6OZ Bottle back to sleep till 7
A-7AM-solids then 9.30 bottle
S-9.30
A-11.30
E-6oz bottle,12.30 solids
S-2.30
A-3.3O
E-6oz bottle then 4.30 solids
S-7PM but do feed to sleep with bottle at seven..cant get any more on page help appriciated xxx

[mmom]

EWs can be a mystery. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=87109.0 Is there a tooth looming that could be causing discomfort in the early morning hours?  I have tried feeding back to sleep too and it isn't a great option.  Is she crying when she wakes or just babbling?

If she is already an independent sleeper, you can try PU/PD when she wakes that early in an attempt to get her back to sleep. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69177.0

[adelegarland]

Well this morn he started off with what i call his dolphin noises,usually means he happy sort of squeaks and babbles but quickly turns to crying,tried just resting hand on his back which had always worked in past.
Also dont think related to amount of daytime sleep as had nearly 4hrs in total on wednesday but only 2hr yesterday,so tempted to let him cry it out and see what happens but know thats really bad,,,never tried pu/pd,did it work for you?

[mmom]

(((HUGS)))) I understand the frustration. i REALLY do.  But CIO breaks the trust between your and your LO and there are ways of teaching sleep without letting her do that. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63839.0

Your routine does look ok, which is why I am wondering about discomfort.  Have you tried putting teething gel on her gums when she wakes?

I actually just tried PU/PD as my LO was waking at 4 am and not going back to sleep.  He is 9 months.  What eliminated the EW for me was making sure the nap wasn't too early (so setting the 1st nap and a time for a reasonable wake up) and if he did wake, putting teething gel on him and then laying him back down.  My LO would sit up and cry and i would lay him back down.  At first, he went back to sleep and then he stopped waking. 

What do you think?  Could you try that?

[adelegarland]

Yes thanks will give a go,actully got some good teething powder today as dont want to get him too dependent on calpol,cross fingers tonight hoping these EW are just phase as did happen a couple of months back and only lasted a week or two i think(bit of a blur now though)
Just so frustrating as had got our EASY so sorted and the short nap problem solved cant see where it started going wrong???
Let you know how we got on in morning x

[adelegarland]

ok,same happened again but was partners turn to get up with him,gave teething powder straight away(woke 4.50am) also rob changed his nappy as he had pooped,think rob could only sit it out ten mins max in there with him crying before getting him up.
know these EW prob engrained habit now as been happening a week but his EASY went bit funny as had day out shopping with mum.
He had lovely 1.5hr nap morn,8.40-10.30am but fell asleep in car seat for 20mins on our way back home 1.30-12ish but woke as soon as brought in house,so i thought no way he going to make it till this eve so he took 45min nap at4.15 to 5pm and woke very OT bathed massaged teeth powder and bottle in bed by 7.pm,,,
Just thinking bit of dodgy routine yeasterday may not have helped but get him back on track today,he eats plenty aswell so dont think hunger issue.am off to buy ear plugs today so hoping i can persevere bit longer than rob with PU/PD
Wish me luck!

[mmom]

That is the tough part about PU/PD.  I really understand how the crying is so difficult.  I just went through it myself and the crying really cuts to my core.  BUT you need to be consistent.  So yes, get those ear plugs.  Good luck!

[adelegarland]

We got to 6am this morning,so chuffed.
Didnt bother pu/pd as i can cope with 6am start to the day and he did have total of 11.5hrs
night sleep so really didnt think could extend him any further.
Hope the EW waking pattern broken now and he can gwt back to 6.30am wake up,however will let you know if have sucsess with pu/pd if EW starts again.
Thanks for your help x

[adelegarland]

Nope,bad luck again 5am wake up,robs shift again so not sure if doing pu/pd right,think he just in there with hand on his back,put teething powder on gave 2oz water in case was thirsty and just flat out cried for half hour.
Only salvation today is that LO took 30 min nap 8am-8.30 so he just gone down for another now,so will mean afternoon nap will fall much later so trying to move bed time to 8.30pm poss 9pm,figure thats worth a shot.

[mmom]

I would only do PU/PD on a 10-10.5 hour night.  Anything more and your LO will fight you, as it isn't really an EW.

For an 8 month old, you are really just laying them back down when they sit up and start crying.  So you lay your LO down, say "it is time to go to sleep" or something similar, rub his back, and then step away from the crib.  If he sits back up and starts crying, you lay him back down and do the same thing.  Don't keep rubbing his back.  Also, I wouldn't offer water.  It is confusing.    Does that help?

[adelegarland]

well got him to bed at 9.15pm as only took two 30min naps in day then put him down at 4.30 and he would have slept 2hrs but woke him at 6.15,he did wake at 1.30 but i went in and just laid hand on his back(no water or milk given),stopped crying after 5mins and back to sleep but he did wake 6am.
Really thought he might have gone till 7 as went down so late,,,really confused dont know if he is working toward just needing one nap a day as is nearly 9months old and quite happily manages 4hrs awake time in morning,i know is not a massive problem compared to some of other mums NW problems and i seem really lucky tbh is just stange how his sleep pattern has changed so much.

[mmom]

Can you post what your day looked like EAS format?  That is a late bedtime.

My LO is 8 months and before he got sick, we were in a vicious cycle or short naps and EWs.  I went with the approach of a set nap in the morning and a set nap in the afternoon.  My LO was waking at 5 and he wouldn't go down for his first nap until 9.  The goal was about 1 hour and then a longer nap later.  However, after couple of days, he started sleeping later and that 1st nap became later. It also became shorter too, so I think that we are getting close to the 2-1 as well.

It looks like your LOs day was too long.  Even though he had 2 - 30 minute naps and then an almost 2 hour one, it was still too long of a day.  With a bedtime that late, you are bound to get an EW.

Did you try to get him back to sleep with PU/PD when he woke?

[adelegarland]

No didnt try pu/pd when woke as so shattered i slept through the crying at 6am,didnt know he was up till Rob plonked him in bed next to me!(also thatis not something we ever do,never normally comes into bed with us)
Have never put him to bed that late ever,he normally down asleep anywhere between 6.45pm and 7.30pm
EASY FOR YESTERDAY
A-5AM
E-6AM SOLIDS 7PM
S-8AM-8.30
A-8.30
E-BOTTLE 10.30 SOLIDS 12
S-11.30
A-12.
E-3-BOTTLE
S-4.30
A-6.15
refused solids all evening then bottle 9.00pm,fed to sleep
Know it looks bad but we have been spot on for weeks when checked against other sample easys for his age,just thought trying late bed time may have broken the EW cycle

[adelegarland]

Sorry had to rush off there cos he was crying,just couple more things.
Those 30 min naps,do you think that was due to him being UT,i think poss was as normally can manage 4hr awake time in morn and anywhere between 2.5 and3.5 hrs rest of dayi just watch his cues normally

[mmom]

You could try pushing that 1st nap by 10-15 minutes and see what kind of nap it gives you.  Then if you get a short nap and you think he can handle it, you can push it slightly more again.  But if you get another short nap, I wouldn't push too much.

I would have cut that last nap a lot shorter.  It is a lot of sleep close to bedtime and probably cut into his nighttime sleep.  Also, it may his day so long, that you were going to get an OT EW.  Also, if it happens again like that, I would use that time to do PU/PD to extend the night.  Keeping a baby up later doesn't guarantee a later wake up as you found out.  If you have a consistent later bedtime and your days are better, it gives you a better shot at a later wake up.