Author Topic: Ugh, rotten night  (Read 1607 times)

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Offline story3girl

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Ugh, rotten night
« on: March 29, 2011, 11:57:23 am »
LO is 6.5 months now, and I hoped we'd be past this.  Most nights we'd been down to just one NW at 2:30, and sometimes an EW at 5:30 but I can usually get her back down until at least 7:30.  (BT is at 8.)  The past 3 nights, she started waking up between 10 and 11 again.  I normally just feed at NW, put in crib drowsy and stay there for the 2 or3 more minutes it takes her to go to sleep.

Last night I decided I needed to cut this off, so I decided not to feed at 10:30 since there was no way she could be genuinely hungry then.  As predicted it took 45 minutes to get her back to sleep (I started by shh patting but ended up holding her to sleep because I just didn't have the fortitude to deal with tears.   She still screamed in my arms for 10 minutes before letting go.)

She woke again at 12, so I fed right away, but when I tried to put her back down she screamed again.  I picked her up once and she calmed, but still had to pat in crib for another 15 minutes.  My nerves were shot from all the screaming and I took it very hard that she was still crying even though she'd been fed.

Then she slept until 5, same thing, fed straight away but cried again anyway.

I had never set out to drop feedings before, she had mostly just done it on her own and then picked them back up as needed.   Is it always this hard?   Do I have to keep putting us through all this screaming?  I'm not even sure why I'm trying to drop it other than because other people say I should.  Ugh.

Offline mmom

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Re: Ugh, rotten night
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2011, 00:05:49 am »
(((HUGS))) I am sorry you are struggling. What is your routine like during the day? Can you post it in EAS format?  Any chance she is teething and feeding out of comfort?

Does your LO already have independent sleep? If she does and you don't think she is hungry, you will have to endure some crying to get her to not wake for that NW.  You will need to pat http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69566.0 or do PU/PD. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69175.0
Kara


Offline story3girl

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Re: Ugh, rotten night
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2011, 17:19:31 pm »
Thanks mmom . . . I was feeling pretty defeated yesterday, but last night was better.  She still woke at 10:30, but when I went up and picked her up, she stopped crying and started to settle, so I immediately put her back down, and just patted for a few minutes and she went to sleep.

Normally, that's how bedtime goes.  Sometimes, she does it completely on her own, and sometimes I need to pat for a few minutes.

My EASY has been really weird yesterday and today, so I'll give you both yesterday and a "normal" day from last week:

Normal:

7:30 Wake, Eat
A - Floor, rolling (lots of rolling), kicking in playgym, cuddling and a story
9:30 Sleep (usually starting to fall asleep on me, put down in downstairs pack and play)
11:30 Wake, Eat
A  floor, rolling mostly
12:30 Eat (Cereal)
A Play with toy in highchair, sitting practice on bed, sometimes errands during this time but stays awake
2:15 Sleep (Put in pack and play or turned off swing - with music on if fussing - falls asleep by herself, sometimes takes a little longer to go down, but usually takes a 45 minute nap regardless)
2:45 Wake, Eat
A playing with toys, sometimes a walk if weather permits
5:30 Sleep? Often fights this one.  Sometimes just sits in swing or rolls around in bed chattering for half an hour
6:00 Eat (nursing)
6:30 Eat (cereal)
A time - just cuddling and talking on couch mostly, bath a few nights a week, sometimes video chats with grandma
8:00 (or a little earlier if tired signs) Wind down - pajamas, story, nursing, then put on sleep sack and put in bed
8:30 (at latest) Sleep

Yesterday looked more like
(10:30 NW for an hour
12 NW - fed - patted for 20 minutes
5:00 EW - Feed, patted)
6:00 Wake
A - mostly quiet cuddling  (mommy was too tired for much else)
7:00 Eat
A - story, diaper change, trying to keep awake
7:30 Sleep
10 had to wake
10:30 Eat
11:45 Sleep (again)
12:30 Wake
Eat (cereal)
Monster A time - rolling, sitting, trying to tire out, then carried around house to wind down,  tried to put down at 2:45 and again at 3:30 - both times played for a while, then fussed, then screamed and reached out to be picked up as soon as she saw me

Must have fed at least once during this A time, but too much in a fog to write it down

4:30 Sleep
5:15 Wake
5:30 Eat
6:30 Eat cereal
7:30 - Very sleepy - shortened bedtime routine
7:45 Asleep

NW - 10:30 - patted back to sleep in a few minutes
1:30 Fed
5 Fed

I expect to still be feeding once during the night and am okay with that,  but I think the 10:30 waking is messing up the rest of the night.  We got rid of it once before - well, mostly she did, and started sleeping from 8-2:30 - but now it's come back.  It would be lovely if it were a schedule issue and I didn't have to deal with crying.  I feel in my gut like fixing the naps will fix the NW and fixing the NW will fix the naps - but that's an impossible circle isn't it?

Like I said, though, last night I was fully expecting to cave, but there was no crying and I managed to get her back down with no feed pretty quickly.

Offline mmom

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Re: Ugh, rotten night
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2011, 20:54:58 pm »
The first NW at 10 looks OT.  If she refuses a cat nap, definitely aim for an early bedtime.  I don't think she needs to feed at this NW.

The average A for LOs this age is 2.75-3 hours.  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652 I would push out that first A a bit more.  Your LO should be able to handle more than 2 hours.  Sleep that is too close to an EW, can make the EW worse.

If your LO takes a 45 minute nap, then the next A time will be shortened.

Here are some sample routines to give you an idea of what you are aiming for.

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164029.0

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164030.0
Kara


Offline story3girl

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Re: Ugh, rotten night
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2011, 21:09:22 pm »
Thanks for looking at it!  I have tried to stretch out that first A time before with little success but I will try again tomorrow.  Any tips?  I sometimes end up with an OT baby sobbing in my ear after even 2 hours.   :-\  I know it's because she's waking up tired from the EW, so maybe I need to work on both at the same time?

If I try to shorten A times after a short nap, I usually just end up with a crib party.  If I just leave her alone, eventually she gets tired of playing without me and starts screaming and then won't settle, and I get on an UT/OT loop.  We've had days where she resisted naps for up to 6 hours.  So, I KNOW you're right that the 10:00 NW is from OT, I'm just not sure where to go from there.

Will try earlier BT tonight, as is currently refusing CN again.

Offline mmom

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Re: Ugh, rotten night
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2011, 21:55:52 pm »
I would try lengthening the 1st A by 10 minutes at a time.  By doing it slowly, you hopefully avoid an OT mess.

About the UT/OT loop, I wouldn't put her down and hope that she eventually settles.  If I put my UT baby down, he would fight even more. I would just shorten the next A and follow cues.

Eliminating the EW will come (hopefully) when you get A times and not have an OT babe come bedtime.
Kara


Offline story3girl

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Re: Ugh, rotten night
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2011, 02:31:24 am »
So, I try for 2h10 minutes for the morning A time, even pushing past sleepy signs?  And then for the rest of the day... do I go entirely by sleepy signs?  I either have a really hard time spotting them, or she has unclear early ones because I've sometimes gone 4 hours watching her and seen nothing. Or try to put her down at 2h45 minutes as I have been?  And then if she just lays there or starts rolling around and playing, do I get her back up?  Or try to pat?  If she's UT and I try to pat to sleep, she gets really mad.  Or maybe she needs a longer A time than that, but the 45 minute naps are causing problems?

I'm feeling really frustrated and defeated and stupid right now for not being able to get this.  Tonight I put her down before 7 and she woke back up at 8:30 and was up for 2 hours.  Not crying or upset, just awake.  I'm so mad at myself.  I know she needs her sleep.  She's such a sweet and happy baby and I feel like I'm doing everything wrong.