7 month old - need help!

[PeachyK]

My 7 month old son has a reasonable routine:

Awake 8am, BF, breakfast
Nap 10-11 (sometimes less)
BF/lunch
Nap 2-3 (sometimes less)
BF/Supper around 5
Bedtime routine and BF and in bed by 7:30.

The problem is that I'm getting tired of night time feedings. He wakes up around 10:30-11 and wants to be fed (at least this is what I have been doing). Back to sleep until 1:30-2, wants to feed again. Then wants another feeding at 5:30-6.

I know he doesn't "need" to eat so often, but he definitely wants to. He'll nurse for about 30 minutes (actively) at each night feeding. I'm not sure how to get him to stop. Last night I tried shush/pat and PU/PD but it was a mess. It took me 2 hours to get him back to sleep because every time I tried to leave, he got VERY upset. And then he only slept a couple of hours before waking again. I gave up and fed him..and he nursed his usual 30 minutes again and slept for 3 more hours.

Today's naps have been much worse than usual. Took forever to get him to sleep (with 10 minutes of crying because I couldn't stand anymore patting and shushing). He only slept for 30 minutes and woke up more upset than I've seen him in months.

I know I'm supposed to give this process a solid 3 days to work, but I'm so tired and frustrated I feel like going back to night feedings would be better for both of us. I don't understand how to shush and pat and then leave the room, because he notices me leaving and becomes more alert (even though his eyes were closed) and starts crying. Then i have to start all over. I don't see how me standing there patting and shushing him is any better than feeding him and putting him down (usually awake and he goes to sleep himself).

Any advice would be appreciated.

[newmama12]

I think we have twins! Seriously. My DS is just over 8 months old and almost on the exact same schedule (give or take) and doing the exact same thing at night. He's even waking at the same time as your DS. LOL! I feel for you mama. I truly do b/c I am right there with you. Only difference is that my guy will nurse for about 10 minutes during the night and be done. But he wakes every 3 hours as well. Screams his head off till I feed him. We've tried PU/PD and ssh/pat. Neither have worked. Although, admittedly, I haven't really tried them for any length of time. I'm too tired at 2am do keep going in/out of his room for 2 hours.  
He was a GREAT sleeper, basically, from birth till 4.5 months when the additional NWs started. And they haven't stopped. I feel that it is completely habitual now and we're going to need some serious sleep training. UGH! He doesn't need to eat. He's over 20 lbs and on 3 solid meals/day along with about 4 nursing sessions during the day. His naps are pretty good, though. I hope you're little man's improve!

Maybe we can try and work together, give support, ideas, whatever! I need to rid these night feedings as well. I am tired. He wakes tired in the morning b/c he doesn't sleep longer than 3 hours in a row.

[Tay]

Hiya,
A few questions: does your LO sleep independently? How are his feeds during the day? (does he feed well? or does he seem distracted?) what about solids, how is he getting on with it?
Have you ever tried a DF?
A couple of ideas... Let me know what you think and we can tease them out a bit more.
- Some mums try to shorten the length of the feed rather than completely cut out the feed. It worked for my DS, but some LOs will just not have any of it and will demand a full feed.
What I done was I picked one NW and worked on it - first would try to resettle him without feeding and if he wasn't resettling in 5 or 10min I would feed. But cut down by 1 min on the second side. Done it for a couple of nights then cut down by another minute, until he was single side feeding. Then started cutting that down.
- another idea is to pick one of the NW and slowly extend the time you feed your LO. Time when he wakes up, so let's say it's around 1.30am, so next night you don't feed until 1.40am, the following night 1.45/1.50am and so on.
Another thing that just came to me... If it's always at the same time, you can also try W2S.
Let me know what you think
xx

[honeybeze]

I am in exactly the same boat!  My DS is 7 months and slept well (anywhere from 5-9 hours at a stretch) until 4-5 months.  He has always been a good napper, has a solid bedtime routine and settles easily. He has slept almost exclusively in his crib since 10 days old.  At around 4-5 months he started waking 2-3x per night, sometimes more.  He always BF quickly - 15 minutes or so and back to sleep easily.  He still BF every 2 hours during the day (both sides every feed) and has at least 3 meals of solids, sometimes 1-2 snacks as well.  I am thinking it may be my breast milk supply, or teething, or   We tried 1 bottle of formula at bedtime once and he was so fussy later that night we gave up on that!  I haven't tried to DF yet...maybe that's next on the list?  I don't mind feeding him a time or two at night - but not ever sleeping for more than 2-3 hours at a time is just silly for both of us!  Last night I tried to only nurse on one side at a time - he only slept for an hour and then wanted to BF again!

I have also tried to just comfort him, thinking the feedings were a habit rather than a need - and paid the price.  He did settle, but only for a bit then was up again wanting to eat rather than cuddle.  At 11 pm, 2 am, 5 am, it is WAY easier to feed him for that 15 minutes and get back to bed - but I fear it will become a habit and will be hard to break him of this routine.  I have also decided to try and extend his A time to 3 hours, rather than 2.  I have done this a couple days and it made no difference, but I suppose I should be patient and see what happens. 

I will be curious to see what works for you ladies - it's so hard with all these variables to know what is truly causing the NW......but am SO glad we are not alone!!  I suppose I should choose 1 thing to try and stick with it for a week before jumping to the next!

Tay - thanks for your thoughts - I am making a list of "things to try" and your suggestions are on it!

[newmama12]

Honeybreeze, sounds like we have the same baby too! Everything you said, is the same way in our house. My little guy is the same too, as, he goes to bed easy, fairly good napper. And, yet still wakes 3x a night for feeding. Like you said, much easier to feed him and be done with it in 15 minutes. With my baby, I really think it's just habit, at this point. He's waking at just about the same times (give or take 30) every night.
I do try and push his day BFeeds to 3-3.5 hours. I often worry about my supply and maybe he's just really hungry. We've tried topping off with formula bottles and bedtime bottles and bottles in the night, but none of that made any difference. I think he just really wants that comfort from nursing and needs it to get back to sleep.

But...this mama is getting really tired of getting up every 3 hours all night long! Heck, he slept longer shifts than that as a newborn.

I'm not really sure where to go at this point. When we go into his room to settle him it just makes him more angry. If we spend a lot of time holding/rocking, we can (sometimes) get him back to sleep but he'll be up 45 minutes later looking for the boob. Ugh! I really don't know what to try next...

[honeybeze]

newmama12 - we have twins separated at birth.....(actually, it sounds like all the babes in this thread are the same).     I feel like I have created a habit just b/c it's easier to feed than to try to convince him it's OK to sleep without a boobie at night......

I have never tried to journal his schedule with the EASY, so am starting that, and also extending his A time to 3 hours (prev on an up for 2 hours then nap schedule) and drop the late CN.  Also going to try and stretch the day BF to 3-3.5 hours as well! 

I am thinking of just not feeding until midnight, period, and seeing how that goes?  Then maybe we can get it down to 2 feedings....then start working on one feeding.  I will let you know how it goes!!  I work a couple days this week, then to Moab next week, so will really "buckle down" after that!   

[newmama12]

Oooh, Moab! It's beautiful there! Loved Arches National Park! Have fun!

I feel the same way as you - I believe I've created this habit b/c I didn't want him to cry or be upset at night. And now, I definitely need to convince him it's ok to go 11-12 hours w/out the boob! LOL! I know the longer we wait, the harder it's going to be. Although, I get so much contradicting info on this. If you talk to the mamas on kellymom.com, which is the breastfeeding support group, they'll tell you that this is completely normal and we just have to wait it out. When the lo's are ready, they'll sttn. I don't know if I agree or if I want to wait till he's 15 months. Yikes!

My little guy has a hard time doing 3 hours of A in the morning b/c he's so darn tired from being up every 3 hours all night long. He can, usually, do 3 hours in the afternoon, as long as his first nap was 1.5 hours. If it was less, he needs less A time. But then we have to deal with no CN and an early bedtime b/c there will be way too much A after 2nd nap and before bed. It's so hard to figure out!

Good luck to you guys! I hope all of us can get out lo's sleeping much better at night soon!

[honeybeze]

Newmama12 - I just couldn't wait until after the trip - who can resist such a cute, sweet project?  Anyway, tried PU/PD and general comforting for his 1st NW (between 1045-1130) for the last 2 nights.  He was up for 15 minutes or so, then was back to sleep after a minute or two of crying when I left the room.  He then slept until 2 or 3, got up for 1 feed, and back to sleep until morning!  He was so sleepy during the feed that I was tempted to try and just put him back down, but baby steps, right? Who knows if this is a trend or just a fluke, but am hoping that 1st NW will resolve and 1 feed will be OK until he is ready to stop?  I will keep you posted on our progress......

Also have increased A time to 2 1/2 to 3 hours FYI - he has done great with that. 

We live about 5 hours from Moab - most people in the CO mtns need a vacation AWAY from the cold, snow and mud this time of year brings!!  Can't wait for dry earth, warm weather and hiking/biking!!!   

[PeachyK]

Thanks for the replies. If nothing else, it's nice to know I'm not alone! When I read other posts, I tend to feel like I'm the only one that has these problems! Unfortunately my DS has a cold, so sleep training is shelved until he (and I!) get better. I did try a DF last night (so I could catch a few extra hours of sleep before he woke up!) and he accepted it pretty well, so I'm thinking I might try that when he's better and see how it goes.

My DS sleeps in his crib in his room. He feeds pretty well during the day, if sometimes a little distracted (especially if Dad is around talking!) We're doing BLW, and it's going quite well. It's fascinating to watch him feed himself! I've tried to shorten the length of his feeds before, but he gets pretty mad about it! I leave him until he lets go by himself (or is clearly falling asleep), if I don't he tends to become more alert and harder to settle.

I think trying to eliminate one late night feed at a time is the way I'll go. It's that darn 2am one that I'd really like to get rid of. The problem is I'm so tired at that one, that PUPD seems like it takes way too much energy! Hopefully once we get over these colds, I'll have more energy to try again. Or maybe he'll magically have changed by then! 

Just curious...how do you manage to increase their A time without getting them OT? I think that might help us too, but it's so hard to keep him entertained much passed about 2 hours in the morning that I feel like I'm being cruel by not just putting him to bed.

[honeybeze]

Hi & hugs PeachyK!  In answer to your A time ?, I guess my DS was just "ready" for it - his daytime naps were getting shorter and shorter - that being said, he certainly gets tired sooner sometimes and I just have to put him down instead of fighting him! I think there is an area on this website about if your LO is ready to increase A time?

I know what you mean about the cold - I feel like it was illness that got us all off track in the 1st place and one or the other of us has been sick ever since!  He is currently almost over an ear infection, so I almost feel mean even trying to cut out a feed - but I've just got to do it! 

He is REALLY fighting the PU/PD tonight with his 1st NW - so I probably just jinxed myself - now up for 40 minutes and not happy with momma!     

[newmama12]

Honeybeze, so sorry the PU/PD wasn't working last night. I think we're going to need to work on that. I have never really done it. I've noticed a pattern, lately, with his waking. He goes to bed at 6:30pm b/c he's so tired. Last night he slept till 11 (not bad!). Nursed, but he didn't eat much at all. Back to sleep about 11:15. Woke at 1:30. Grrr! Hungry. Downed a 5oz bottle. Woke again at 5:40am. I let him stir and fuss a bit, but based on past experience I knew he wouldn't go back to sleep. I ended up nursing him at 6:10 and he did go back to sleep. Unfortunately, I have to wake him now so he can get in a short nap before dd's dance class. Ugh!

Here's what I'm thinking....since he's not all that hungry at the first waking (anytime between 9:30-11pm), I'm thinking of doing PU/PD here. If we can rid that feed, then we'll have the super early one. I'm hoping to get him to wake at 1:00am or so and then (with any luck) keep pushing that out till we get to our goal, which is, roughly 6:30am. That's my plan, at least! It's pretty much what dd did except she only woke once, instead of 3x a night at his age.

So frustrating and so tiring!

[Tay]

Hiya, how are you getting on?
xx

[IzzyD's mom]

I am going to tag along cos I am in the same boat with similar wake up times- normally 2 and 5 but recently he has been throwing another one in there just to spice things up. He eats 3 meals per day and has 4 feeds plus a DF. He doesnt eat actively for very long at night but takes forever to resettle unless I feed him for a minute or 2. His naps in the day are fine and he goes down in his own crib on his own so he can self settle. He is still a nighttime rolling fiend and will occasionally sleep on his tummy. He has also just finished a round of antibiotics for an ear infection (that never seemed to cause him pain
) but I think has made him extra gassy at night. I wish I could rule out gas pain/ ear pain/ genuine hunger so that I would know to just bite the bullet and wean the NFs. We weaned his paci a couple of weeks ago and saw a short improvement but still no STTN.

[honeybeze]

So....not really sure what changed - DS has decided to sleep 9-10 hours straight 2 out of the last 3 nights. (I, of course, couldn't sleep straight thru, waking up wondering why he wasn't up......) His A time has been very consistently 2 1/2 to 3 hours and thus his naps more reliable at 1-2 hours.  Also no CN other than a brief snooze in the car on our way home from town.  His bedtimes have varied from 715 to 8 pm, so that doesn't affect it for him - he "tells" us if he wants to go down early! 

I almost wonder if his on and off again illnesses from daycare, then an ear infection (on 2nd round of abx for this), and teething - affected everything and we kind of had to reset things.  I have also not nursed him to "sleep" a single time - always made sure he was awake but drowsy when I put him down.  We did give him a bottle of formula last night and tonight, so will see if that appears to be a factor as well.  I will keep everyone posted on how/what we are doing - good luck and long sleep stretches to everyone! 

[Tay]

I almost wonder if his on and off again illnesses from daycare, then an ear infection (on 2nd round of abx for this), and teething - affected everything and we kind of had to reset things.

That does sound like it. Illnesses can really knock things out of place.
I'm glad to hear he's sleeping better though, just make sure you get the rest you need too!
xx