At my wits end!

[jakobsmom]

I have been struggling with my DS now for 5 days with respect to naps.  He was on a 1 hr 45 minute A time and having two good 1.5 hour naps a day.  Now is a completely different story.  The naps are a fight, and he doesn't stay asleep any longer than 35-45 minutes.  I try to resettle him after with pu/pd and sh/pat but he just gets completely worked up and SCREAMS for at least 20-30 minutes - even with me trying to do everything to get him to settle. 

He generally wakes up at around 7 am, this am he was up at 645.  I thought that I would try extending his A time to 2 hours as he is 20 weeks old now and the old A time didn't seem to be doing it anymore.  Today I got him asleep with about 5-10 minutes of fussing in his crib (which is good) but then awake again within 35 minutes.  He finally settled to sleep at 0850.  He is a very spirited/touchy baby and gets worked up/excited very easily.  So, for my wind down I turn the lights down and we read a couple of books and when he starts yawning off to the crib we go.  Today wind down was a total of 10 minutes.

Yesterday he did have a 2 hour afternoon nap which was great, but I am worried that he isn't getting enough sleep.  I tried to go with the flow today and let him get up after his 35 minute nap (he was cheerful smiling etc. in his crib) but after an hour he turned into a right bear and yet again we ended up with a screaming match to get him to nap again.  Are we stuck in an OT cycle?  He wakes up happy in the am usually chatting away to himself in his crib....

So frustrated about this and all of the screaming!  Thank goodness I live in the country and my neighbours can't hear him.  I just want to cry because I just don't know what to do.

[~Sara~]

*hugs* hon...it's rough when they're not sleeping.

I would say that if he's still sleeping well at night, you're *thankfully* not stuck in an OT cycle.

Maybe a 15 minute jump in A time was too much for him, especially if he's as touchy as you say.  What about trying a 1h50-1h55 A time for a couple of days and see how that goes?  Sometimes a few minutes can make a world of difference!  I know I seem wobbly...byt 35 minute naps are borderline.  It could have been UT??  I'd try cutting back on A time first, then we can reassess in a couple of days.

I tried to go with the flow today and let him get up after his 35 minute nap (he was cheerful smiling etc. in his crib) but after an hour he turned into a right bear and yet again we ended up with a screaming match to get him to nap again.

I think THIS nap was definitely OT.  His behavior is pretty typical--and you're lucky he gave you such strong cues--of the whole A time needing to be reduced after a short nap.  It looks like he likes ~1h A time after a short nap...which will also lengthen as he gets older/gets used to a new A time.

Question, though...you don't think he's teething do you?

[jakobsmom]

Thanks for the recommendations - I too have been wondering if he is undertired in the am.  Is it possible that he just needs a longer A time in the am after his night sleep?  Even when we were doing 1 hour 45 minutes by the time he fell asleep I think it was closer to 2 hours (will look back in my log).  Yeah, he is teething....it has been going on and off for the past month but last weekend was BAD, and I thought it had settled but am now questioning that.  Drool has yet again increased and he is biting his fingers pretty bad again.  I even noticed last night that he was hesitant to put his fingers in his mouth - he usually does this to settle, but he would put them in then pull them out and shift his head around and try again.  Also pulling at his right ear periodically (I am pretty sure it is not an ear infection - no fever, very inconsistant with the pulling and no visible redness with the ear.) I previously took him to md for this and she said it was teething?

The funny thing is that I must have caught him at the right time this afternoon and he slept for 2.5 hours....could he just prefer this kind of schedule with a longer afternoon nap???

Erg, sorry I feel so lost.

[~Sara~]

Sorry about not responding sooner, I've been battling a nasty cold.  How have the past couple of days gone, with trying a different A time?

If he's teething, things might be out of whack for a while.  Personally, I found it very hard to sleep train (or routine tweak) while DS was teething.  Pretty much had to ride out the storm, APOP if need be, and then try anew once things settled down.  Can you see any teeth yet?

[jakobsmom]

No problem!  I appreciate any advice I can get!  He is still doing the 45 minute am naps but then is having a good 2.5 hour nap in the afternoon and another catnap....so for now I think that I am just going to let this be.  The fight to try and extend his am nap is not worth it and to be honest I have never had success with extending it.  I will contiue with the two hour A time as I think that he is ready for this....but will continue to watch him like a hawk to try and catch his sleepy time.

[~Sara~]

Okay...I would say that soon he'll be ready for more A time soon, so just something to consider for the coming future (normally LOs need an A time increase about once a month).  If you're good with how things are, then we can leave it at that.  We're always here if you have any questions in the future.  *hugs* and good luck!

[jakobsmom]

Sorry another quick question.  I got him to sleep just after the 2 hour mark, and stayed in his room and did sh/pat when I saw him do the jolt - and now he has been sleeping for over an hour.  How long should I continue sh/pating for when I see the jolt?  And I am committing myself to staying in his room at the 30 minute mark for the week to continue doing this....do you think that this would be long enough to hopefully train him to extend this nap?  I am only going to concentrate on this nap, then hopefully if we crack this problem move on to the afternoon nap.

Thank you again!

[~Sara~]

Do you mean you did shh/pat for the first 20 minutes until he was in deep sleep?  There's normally a jolt around there.  However, at this age, LO should be able to get used to settling even during those first 20 minute jolts (bc their Moro reflex isn't that strong anymore, compared to, say, a newborn).  I would say that you shouldn't be doing the shh/pat for that long at the beginning of the nap, unless you've just started doing it...over time, you will do it less and less until you just do some shh/pat during wind down (maybe a couple of minutes) and he sends himself off the rest of the way.  Ahh, that's a good feeling.

Now, some parents use shh/pat to extend naps to help LO work through the transition in between sleep cycles.  Personally, this only woke up my DS even more, and so we used a combination of holding through the jolts and eye shielding.  He was a short napper from 3.5-6 mo...you just have to find the combo/trick that works for your LO.

Is his room darkened?

[jakobsmom]

Yeah his room is darkened, and I was trying to sh/pat him during the transition time.  Unfortunately this did not work at all yesterday.  I think that you are right about no sleep training during teething, Monday night and all day yesterday were very difficult.  Had several night wakes, and early wake and short naps....which makes one exhausterd mommy   Last night I did put him to bed earlier to help make up for the rotten day and previous night - he went to bed well woke at 1000 and 0200 for a bottle, but had an even earlier wake of 0515.  Is it possible that he doesn't neep that much night sleep?  It seems like we never really make up what is lost.....  And nights for him seem to be 10-11 hours not 12 despite my best efforts to make it this way.  I am considering a slightly later bed time (slowly increase) to see if this helps and may help naps fall into place?

Really wish these teeth would make their appearance.

Thanks again.

[~Sara~]

It seems like we never really make up what is lost.....

Nope, DS never did either.  That's why an early bedtime never worked for us: DS would--and still will--wake up either at his normal time, 7 am, or he'll just sleep for 11h and that's that; normally, whichever comes first.  A lot of parents think that a 12h night is what all babies should do (I know I thought that, too!!), but in reality, a lot of babies/toddlers do 10.5-11h.  And that's totally fine.  Honestly, I wouldn't stress if his nights are ~11h long.

I was trying to sh/pat him during the transition time.  Unfortunately this did not work at all yesterday

I would try not to do shh/pat during the transition, tbh.  It might be disrupting him.  Have you tried holding through the jolts?  I'm beginning to wonder now if maybe he's just a developmental short napper.  With these LOs, they short nap between the ages of 4-6/7 months (this was my DS).  This is very common as there's a change in the REM pattern in their sleep starting at about 4 months, and usually resolving itself by 6/7 months.  I worked so hard to get long naps out of DS...it was exhausting to be httj every nap for a good 40 minutes each time

If you'd like to try httj, I'd recommend giving it a solid effort for a couple of weeks.  Or, if you can't spend so much time in his room during his naps (especially true for moms with 2+ kiddos), then you can try an EAS for a short napper.  Here's a link that talks about that, it was written by a mom whose girls were both short nappers:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=128419.0

Let me know what you think...these are all suggestions and I'm happy to go down whichever path you choose

[jakobsmom]

I too am wondering about the developmental short napper.  He wakes up happy and ready to regardless of how long his nap or A time is (initally he always wakes screaming to get your attention ).  I think that I may be stressing the two of us out trying to get this nap thing resolved, tbh most of his crying and unhappyness is from me trying to get him to sleep or extend naps.  I think I am getting better at reading his tired cues which is an improvement and am learning to just watch him not the clock.

Maybe I should back off for a bit and be happy with a longer afternoon nap and a few cat naps throughout the day.
I might just try concentrating on getting his bed time slightly later (right now it is between 7 and 730) to see if that helps the EW.  I completely agree that not all babes are ment to have 12 hour nights - mine definately isn't!

I just want to ensure that he is getting enough sleep.....however am now worried that we are both getting too stressed out with this nap issue

Ever since starting BW over a month ago I am obssessed with naps and sleeping, but can positively say that despite the current issues BW has helped a lot with his eating issues.  He has reflux and we were feeding him every 2 hours at one point - I honestly think that we were over feeding him because we weren't reading his cues properly.  We just assumed that crying and fussing had to be hunger.  He seems to be much happier with the 4 hour EASY and the pridictability of his bottles - the EASY also makes it easier to give him his meds on an empty stomach, which I am sure helps him more in the end.

So, we will keep moving forward and work on nights and EW maybe?

Thanks again, I really don't have any friends with children so it is hard to find advise especially advice that works with what I am trying to accomplish with BW.

[~Sara~]

He wakes up happy and ready to regardless of how long his nap or A time is (initally he always wakes screaming to get your attention

That is another sign of these short nappers: where you've tried every A time in the world, but nothing works.  I wonder, though, what happens if you leave him in his crib when he starts talking, meaning, that you hang back and not go directly in?

Maybe I should back off for a bit and be happy with a longer afternoon nap and a few cat naps throughout the day.
I might just try concentrating on getting his bed time slightly later (right now it is between 7 and 730) to see if that helps the EW.

Sure, give that a shot for a while and see how it works. I wouldn't go past a 13h day, though...just to be on the safe side (like, that it's not TOO long a day for him, you know?).  Let me know how it goes!

As for worrying if he's getting enough sleep, I would concentrate on just fitting in an extra catnap if it seems like he might be getting OT.  I wish I would have had your perspective when I was going through all of this...make sure you can get out and let him catnap wherever if needs be.

I'm glad that BW has helped you, your LO, and your family.  It helps you understand your baby so well, I personally don't know what else I would have done if I hadn't had it!!

So, let me know how things are going.  If we need to readdress some things, we sure can!