Not sure where to go with 3.5 wk old....

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Thanks, Steph.  Good to know someone else is just getting through it!

[squeakersmum]

One crazy idea I had thinking back to when DS was tiny - before he took the paci happily he would want to suck to sleep and we ended up using our little finger (clean of course). Just wondering if nothing else is working for DH if that's a prop you could deliberately introduce until she was more comfortable with the paci. The texture of skin is so different. Maybe an idea if he can't calm her any other way.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Maybe an idea if he can't calm her any other way.

Might be worth a shot.  I'll keep it in mind.  She's definitely coming around to the paci, though.  We just had to go to Target and I forgot the paci in the car and she screamed a ton and then sucked on her little arm so hard that she gave herself a bruise!   Poor little thing.  Then she screamed some more.    So I think we're going to have a paci addict on our hands, but I'll take it.

[~Emma~]

Hi ho. Sorry I've not been around. 

 Seems like you are making some small progresses though and thats fab!

 Re the paci. Well I tried every day for 12 weeks to get DD to take one and she never did.I so wish she had. Its HARD work with 2 LO's and if a paci makes the days ( and nights!) easier then I'd take it too. Try lots of different types, you'll spend a fortune but when you find the right one it'll be worth it!

 Just remember that you are a BW'er. You will sub-consciuosly (sp?!) be BW'ing without even knowing it! And you know when/what to do when things go wrong (as they will!), you also know you are blessed with everyone here to listen and help. Its so hard to quieten those BW voices in your head when LO number 2 comes along. Remember MY posts. 

 You are doing wonderfully. 

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Just remember that you are a BW'er. You will sub-consciuosly (sp?!) be BW'ing without even knowing it! And you know when/what to do when things go wrong (as they will!), you also know you are blessed with everyone here to listen and help. Its so hard to quieten those BW voices in your head when LO number 2 comes along. Remember MY posts.

That's all so true, Emma, and I need to remember it.  I do remember your posts and lots of other wonderful moms on here who struggled when #2 came along.  It does make me feel better to think I'm not the only who isn't getting thought this unscathed!

I do feel like we're making a bit of progress.  Someone remind me, though, about shh/pat with these tiny people.  I started BWing with Austin when I could do PUPD and I know I can't do that yet.  When I tried today to put her in the cosleeper when her eyelids were half closed and then shh/patted her, at first she was fine with it but then she started screaming.  I picked her up and then she fell asleep in my arms and I put her down.    So am I meant to just keep shh/patting through the screaming?  My BW books are lost somewhere in the madness of boxes so remind me. 

My mom is here and commented on what a great independent sleeper Austin is.  Nice reminder that it will take a lot of time but we'll get Grace there, too!

[Tweakster]

Hmmm - the screaming just makes me think discomfort you know?  F used to scream too but would be soothed by us holding him and bouncing him on the big exercise ball (best baby investment - that and the swing!)

Have you tried white noise at all?  This really helped us.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

F used to scream too but would be soothed by us holding him and bouncing him on the big exercise ball (best baby investment - that and the swing!)

This is Grace's one pleasure in life!  Other than the baby carrier, that is.  That d@mn exercise ball was definitely worth the money both with Austin and this one.  That's the only way I can calm her a lot of the time.  Usually that's how she falls asleep.  I'm worried about discomfort too, although I'm in a tough spot with health care for the kiddos at the moment (they're covered but it's a lot of red tape and I'm trying to put off dealing with it if it's not necessary, although of course I don't want her to be in pain, either).  Argh.  I wish she liked the swing better.

Have you tried white noise at all?  This really helped us.

Blasting in her room.    I do think it helps but not as much as I'd like.

[Tweakster]

Keep trying with the swing - we continued to put him in it out of desperation even though he wasn't a fan to start.  The ILs visited at 8 weeks and he finally succumbed to the swing to the point we could have a cooked breakfast while he napped in the corner of the living room.  We felt human again.

F never took a paci either despite our best repeated efforts.  But he had low cheek tone (only discovered by the SLP a year later) so probably part of the issue.  He also preferred the baby finger trick :-)

It was truly hard with a refluxer because the one thing that really should be soothing (feeds!) only added to the discomfort and riled him up.  Then we would finally get him calm, he'd get hungry again and lather rinse repeat.

We had a sleep doula who taught me the white noise trick - it took time too though.  And she also told me the swaddle wasn't tight enough, wrapped him like a mummy after that.

Sorry Kate - I wish there was an easier route but I suspect even if I had known BW at that age, the only tool that would have helped is shush/pat to some extent.  And of course that ever lovin' ball lol. BW was discovered by me around 13 weeks - I was frantically reading everything I could get my hands on to find some help - and hope.

Is it possible to put a co-sleeper on an incline?  It sounds like she's most comfy upright - ball, carrier, soothed in your arms when you picked her up...

(((hugs)))

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Keep trying with the swing - we continued to put him in it out of desperation even though he wasn't a fan to start.  The ILs visited at 8 weeks and he finally succumbed to the swing to the point we could have a cooked breakfast while he napped in the corner of the living room.

That's encouraging, Wendy.  She has taken a couple of naps in it this week so perhaps we're onto something.  I'll keep at it and hopefully she'll realize how nice it is in there. 

It was truly hard with a refluxer because the one thing that really should be soothing (feeds!) only added to the discomfort and riled him up.  Then we would finally get him calm, he'd get hungry again and lather rinse repeat.

It's weird because sometimes this is true for us and sometimes she's soothed by feeds.  I never know which one I'm going to get. 

Sorry Kate - I wish there was an easier route but I suspect even if I had known BW at that age, the only tool that would have helped is shush/pat to some extent.

That's the thing,  I guess, that I feel like my BW arsenal is so limited at this point.    And since she doesn't seem to actually go to sleep with shh/pat.  I guess I need to keep experimenting with what she likes rather than giving up and bouncing her every time. 

Is it possible to put a co-sleeper on an incline?

Yeah we have it up at about 30 degrees I'd say.  Maybe it's helping?  Who knows...

[Tweakster]

Michelle has prepared a great sticky here with all the links I normally post to moms in the early days:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=180311.0

It's worth a read because it has a lot from the books - which I know you don't really have time to read now anyway even if they were unpacked ;-p

It explains about shush/pat, in the early days if LO is screaming I think you do need to pick her up, try to calm her and then start again.  It's defining the screaming vs. crying to self-settle vs. mantra cry and it's a fine grey sticky area at only 4 weeks of age.  It's really early days for shush/pat and even if you only have the energy to try with one nap or at bedtime, it's worth it.  And it's also fine.  And if you don't have the energy some days, then naps in carriers, swings and on top of people are fine too :-)

One thing that was absolute key for us was a bedtime routine.  Yes we even started at that age.  It anchored our day which was all over the map at that point.  And we never stopped, always a bedtime routine, always important no matter where he was going to sleep.  So if you can start to try to form even that, it will help.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Thanks, Wendy.  I know I read that link in the last days of my pg but I haven't looked at it since!  Will give it a read again today.

It explains about shush/pat, in the early days if LO is screaming I think you do need to pick her up, try to calm her and then start again.  It's defining the screaming vs. crying to self-settle vs. mantra cry and it's a fine grey sticky area at only 4 weeks of age.  It's really early days for shush/pat and even if you only have the energy to try with one nap or at bedtime, it's worth it.

Sounds reasonable.  I'll keep trying when I can muster the energy.    Everytime I think I'll be ready then she does what she did last night which is basically not sleep from 3:30 to 6:30! 

Also good to think about BT routine.  I've been feeding, swaddling and then singing to her before bed each night so I guess I'm starting.    Did you do a bath this early?  I thought about it last night but was afraid it would be OS at this age, esp since she's a little touchy.

[Tweakster]

Actually we did a bath every night and in retrospect, he cried and screamed after every bath lol  We thought it was just the thing that babies do at that age but after BW we know better lol.  Seems it may have been too stimulating - even to this day lol  We only do a couple of baths a week now.  But the last few days since he's been out in the garden playing in dirt and sand, we have done one every day.  And he's showing some signs of resistance and very near refusal.  We never learn hey?

So maybe just a nice wipe down and a baby massage with some lavender...it's a nice gentle approach and less stimulating.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

So maybe just a nice wipe down and a baby massage with some lavender...it's a nice gentle approach and less stimulating.

I like this idea.  Will try it. 

But the last few days since he's been out in the garden playing in dirt and sand, we have done one every day.  And he's showing some signs of resistance and very near refusal.  We never learn hey?

LOL.  Just when we think we have this thing down, huh?  I keep  using Austin's sleep as the thing to remind me that I will get through this and then he was up 5 times last night!   These kids. 

[~Emma~]

 Chatty ladies here! 

 I do think with some of these LO's they just take a few weeks to grow into themselves y'know? As you well know DD did barely nap AT ALL for the first 8 weeks of her life. She would have full days of 13 hour A times. It was incredible. She hit 8 weeks and then just started napping out of the blue in her cot, just like that. I had been trying every AP in the book up until then and she had none of it. only thing that worked sometimes was sh-pat.

 Thing that changed it for us was taking her to a cranial osteopath. It helped with the gas and to get her immature wee gut ticking along a little better. She had a pretty rough birth so it helped with that too.


 You will get through it hon. God, I thought at 4 weeks I wasn't...then again at 12...then at 4 months....Only jesting!!

 As for sh-pat, well I have always sh-patted in my arms to sleep at this young age. With both of mine. I think it gets them accustomed to it a wee bit more and at this young age it cant really do any harm. I would sh-pat in my arms and transfer sh-patting, then do it drowsy, then less drowsy.....

 Funny about the bath with F Wendy. Same deal here with B and his filth! Needing a bath most nights and its starting to cause havoc!

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Hi all...

Just a quick update.  Things seem to be going better with Ms. Grace over here.  I've figured out that shh/pat is OS for her and that I really need to block out all stimulation with my hand and then stroke her forehead as she's going down.  By doing this she has fallen asleep in her crib at least once a day for the past few days!  Yay!  Her naps have been pretty short (25-40 min) but I'm taking what I can get right now.  I try to settle her once and then just let her finish the nap in the carrier.  The rest of her naps are in the carrier but I am trying to be aware of helping her get to sleep after 45m-1h of A time.  Today she's even had some A time on her playmat!  It's nice to have some interaction and fun with her instead of screaming or fighting to get her to sleep. 

Having an established BT has really helped with the nights, Rebecca.  I don't know why I didn't think of that myself!  But it's why I have you lovely ladies.  I'm doing a DF (sometimes she wakes for it and sometimes I beat her to it) and a couple of times she's gone 3.5-4h without eating after that which means that the other night I slept for 3h straight!!  LAst night was rough since I forgot to give her reflux meds but at least I know they're helping. 

So that's the latest over here.  Feels like progress, right?