NW's 23 mth old

[wellywooder]

My DD has had a pacifier and comforter since she was about 4 months old and has generally been a good sleeper (apart from when she's teething).....Until the last couple of weeks when she has been waking 3 or 4 times a night, sits/stands up in her cot and says "No, no, no" over and over again until one of us goes in and reassures her. I've noticed though, that she's more often than not lost her pacifier and so that seems to be the problem. So, I have a couple of questions:

1. Is it normal for this kind of behaviour to start occuring at this age? I can't see why it's just now that she can't seem to find her pacifier in the night? I have tried putting three or four around the cot and this doesn't really help.

2. Could it be that she has started dreaming?

3. Should we try and wean her off the pacifier? If so, any ideas how? Should we try and teach her to suck her thumb instead?

Appreciate your thoughts - thanks!

[sianie]

Hi there...

It's difficult to say whether the dummy's the issue or not, it could be that she's learnt that by crying out she gets you to come into her room.

LO's dream from an early age so it's more likely that it's a nightmare or something that's unsettling her? Does she have a night-light in her room that could help her feel re-assured.

I don't have any personal experience of weaning a dummy at your LO's age, I weaned DS's when he was 6 mths old but hopefully some other Mum's who have BTDT will hop on to share their advice!

Do you want to post your LO's routine, it might throw something up!

[babybarr]

I was going to suggest a nightlight so she can find her own dummy perhaps?

[NZ_Mum]

We weaned the dummy at 3months so dont have any personal experience for weaning at this age, but I did introduce a blanky about a month before I removed the dummy to give DS something new to use as a comforter. (And then he found his thumb on his own) and now he loves his blanky.
A friend of mine weaned the dummy at an older age (cant remember exactly what age it was tho) and because her DD was old enough to understand "broken" she cut a small slit in the end of the dummy to make it less enjoyable to suck, then when DD complained she was able to say it was "broken" and they "may as well throw it away now" and got her DD to actually throw it in the bin herself. (This helps them understand that it is gone now)

BUT to me I dont think this is really your issue. It sounds more like a developmental stage where she's figured out that you'll come in if she yells. Or maybe a routine tweak is needed? Less daytime sleep perhaps?

[wellywooder]

Hi thanks so much for the replies! Dd's day usually starts anywhere from 6-7am depending on the night. Lunch about 1130, then bottle and bed at 12. She's at daycare three days a week and will usually only sleep for an hour or so. So on our days at home naps will be anywhere from two to three hours. Bedtime around 6.30/7ish and always goes down quickly for bed and naps....the exception is today when she refused her nap! I'm keen to see how the night pans out! She does have a nightlight and she loves it. If I have to go to her room anytime after 4am I usually turn it off otherwise she tends to stay up talking to it.

Thanks

[wellywooder]

Last night was just as bad as the others! I think I did hear that she was awake and saying no no no, then I heard a couple of thuds which must have been dd throwing dummy and comforter out of the cot....so, I think that she has definitely learned that she can get us to come in to her! My question now is, if we hear her awake and we don't go in and give her things back to her, how will she settle? Any ideas how we can sort thus out? Whenever we go in, all we fo is give her things back, make sure she is ok, then leave the room - there is never any talking. Thanks

[NZ_Mum]

When my DS throws his stuff out of the cot it is ALWAYS because he is not tired and doesnt want to sleep.
Do you think this might be the case with your LO? And she's saying No no no, what do you think she means when she says that?

Have you noticed if she does this on her daycare days? Or is it only on/after those days when she's had the big 2-3hr sleeps?
It seems like a lot of sleep for a almost 2yo who's doing a 12hr night as well. (Albeit with interuptions!)
And nap refusal usually means they need more A time.

I'd try cutting the daytime sleep, and just keep giving her back her dummy as usual. (Or use this as an opportunity to wean the dummy and tell her that you're only going to give it back to her once and if she throws it again you're not going to give it back to her. And then stick to it - just dont go in, see what happens. She'll work it out pretty quick, and will just have to learn how to get to sleep without it. She's going to have to eventually anyway)

[wellywooder]

Thanks NZ_Mum. I think you are bang on with the lack of tiredness thing. We had another non-nap day yesterday and a not bad night - only up twice. And she's having her sleep today so I think we might be getting back on track. Will see how we go over next weekend once she's caught up from daycare. Thanks again everyone.

[NZ_Mum]

No problem Wellywooder! (Are you pro or against the sign?)

I'm sure she will need some catch up sleep after daycare, but maybe only allow her the first day or so and then cap her naps on the following days just by a little bit. Or as I sometimes do -arrange- a loud noise at an appropriate time! hehe.

Let us know how you get on.

[wellywooder]

Well, things are still a bit all over the place. DD back at daycare for tue & wed this week and on wed she had no nap! Wed night she went down well but I think was up a couple of times in the night. Thur nap was good - 3 hours and I wanted her to have that sleep as I figured she needed to catch up from daycare. Fri nap approx 2.5 hours, last night she woke at 4am and I went in and she resettled quickly. Whimpered again about 5.30 but I didn't go in and she resettled till 6.30. However, for her nap today, we put her in her cot at 12.30 and she didn't go to sleep till 1.30! Lots of mucking round, singing, chatting, throwing things out of cot. She had been for a big walk this morning so I wonder if we should have put her in sooner than 12.30? Just can't figure out A time etc! Surely it's too early to drop her nap?

Also, I wondered, when you cap a nap, what should we cap at?

Thanks!
PS. Undecided on sign...think a sign is a good idea but don't know what should be on it!

[NZ_Mum]

Ha I had the same thing today! Put him in his bed at 12:30 and didnt go to sleep till 1:15!
For us it's a combination of teething and OT that's not allowing him to settle very well.

For you, I'm not sure... it sounds like the 2.5hr nap yesterday was too long. I'd say she caught up with the 3hr nap on Thursday but then allowing her to sleep for too long on Friday has led to her being UT again. The UT/OT loop can be a hard one to crack!
The way I usually do it is add up what you think is her TOTAL sleep needs for a 24hr period and adjust naps according to how much night time sleep she had the previous night, allowing for any deficit left over from bad sleep at daycare.
You didnt say how many hours sleep she had on Thursday night, but I think I would have capped her Friday nap at 2hrs.

Another thing to consider is overstimulation at daycare. If she didnt nap at all there on Wed do you think that was because she was OS or did the daycare just not try hard enough/provide the right setting to get her to sleep?

Otherwise if you just cant figure it out, you can try doing set naps and bedtimes for a few weeks to see if things start to stabilise. I think as they get older it becomes less and less about A times and more about getting their body clocks set into a consistent pattern. But you'd have to have a word with daycare to get them to help you out and adhere to the set nap times (and about their effort of getting her to sleep).

In fact set nap and BT's might really help her (if you can get daycare to come to the party) as its possibly the lack of consistency thats disturbing her sleep. Do you think her NWings are habitual?? See if you can figure out if they're always around the same time.

PS: About the sign, I dont think Wellington even needs to copy Hollywood, after all, Hollywood is now copying Wellington(Weta)!!

[wellywooder]

Thanks NZ_Mum! DD was asleep by 7.30 last night and woke at 6.30am but did have two NW (but not long ones). She was in bed for her nap at 12 and only took 10 mins to settle. In bed tonight at 6.50 and asleep by 7. Fingers crossed - will see how the night goes. I think she's just going through a change in sleep needs. It's a good idea to try and chat with the daycare to see what they can do to help too. I'll keep you posted! Thanks!

[wellywooder]

3 NW's last night - 1am, 5am & 6am and at 6am was def still tired. Little monkey went back to sleep until 7.20am...unheard of unless she is sick! (which she's not). Unfortunately it's a daycare day today so not sure what will happen.

[NZ_Mum]

Ok well at least a 7-7 night is heading in the right direction (aside from the NWings!).
What was she like when she woke up during those NWings? Is she crying, babbling, still throwing her stuff out etc? Do you need to go in to settle her? If so, how long do you wait before you go in?

I hope daycare can get her to sleep today! If she was in fact OT then maybe her sleep in might just be enough to start the upward trend if daycare can get her to have a good nap today.

Also just wondering if you've noticed if she's eating more lately? Growth spurts can sneak up on you unawares and cause mayhem with sleep etc. Just a thought...

[wellywooder]

She is crying when she wakes in the night - I know it's cause she's lost her bits and pieces and she won't resettle without them, so we usually just go in rather than waiting it out. And we're in there for 30sec max.
Funny you should mention the food - she ate like a horse yesterday and this morning we both looked at her and thought she was taller! So that could very well have been it.