6.5 Month old and an AWFUL napper

[MissAndi]

Hi All!

So, we recently started the EASY program. We started last Tuesday (it's Thursday of the next week). A bit of background...My LO is 6.5 months old and breastfed. We've had some sleeping issues. He slept in a bassinet next to our bed for the first 3 months, then started getting really angry at us. So, we coslept with him. Yup, I nursed him to sleep and then stayed there. OY!!! I know some people cosleep and it's great, but it's not for us. Because of logistics (we had a near constant stream of visitors for several months as we live far away from family and friends), we waited until now to move him. The nursery was our guest room. Not our ideal situation but the best we could do at the moment. Also, we never really had a routine per se. If he was hungry I fed him, if he was sleepy I put him down. He had a fairly natural routine for waking (6.45 - 7.15) and his sleepy time at night (7.00-7.30). His naps, though were pretty all over the place.

So... our bedtime is mostly going very well. It's been taking about 10 minutes of fussing to get him to sleep at night in his crib (with the exception of last night which was 30 minutes).


The naps, however... they are an absolute nightmare. Only once in the past week has he napped for more than 35 minutes. In fact, everyday the naps are getting shorter and shorter and shorter. Today, we had two ten minute naps. Yup, ten minutes. I know from the book that these don't even count as naps! I am sure he is overtired. In fact, I know he's terribly overtired. To get him down for a nap takes at least 35 minutes. I have tried to put him back to sleep, but that's only worked once. The rest of the time he simply cries for another 30-45 minutes (in a panic, mind you...not the mantra crying at all). So, then we just scrap the nap and move onto eating followed by activity so we can attempt a nap later in the day.

At this point, I'm not sure what to do about the naps. I know sleep begets sleep. I know that the reason his bedtime is getting more difficult is because his daytime naps are nonexistent.

Help! My DH and I are at the end of our rapidly fraying rope....

[ZacsMumme]

((HUGS)) Can you please post your EASY (how your day would look in a 24 hour period.) in EAS format ie
E (eat) 7
A (awake/activity - eyes open to eyes closed) 7-10
S 10-11
E 11
A11-2
S 2-4 etc

This will help us to get an idea of how things are atm and how we can help
Few quick questions
How does your LO settle for naps and BT ie Does your LO still get BF to sleep, does he use a dummy or any other props to get to sleep for naps/night? Does he go down independently?
Does he have any medical conditions that would cause discomfort ie reflux, intolerance's and/or is he teething at the moment
Does he have NW and if so what times are they and how long?

Hang in there x
 

[MissAndi]

Oh! Sure! BC of his poor napping, we're sort of stuck getting onto the EASY routine because of the bad napping. I'm trying to get a 4 hour going, but the naps sure are causing difficulty!

E 7 am nurse solids: 7:30 am
A
S 9:30 At this point he usually fusses/cries for 20 minutes and sleeps for 20 minutes. If I try to help him back to sleep; that's another 30 minutes of serious fussing/crying for 20 minutes of sleep
E 10:45 am nurse 11:15 solids
A
S 2:00 again.. huge crying fit for 30 minutes followed by 10 minutes of sleeping followed by 30 minutes of crying followed by 20 minutes of sleeping
E 4:00 nurse
A
E 6:00 solids, bathtime, nursing, book,
S 7:30 bed

We read a book before all naptimes. He doesn't use a prop at all for going to sleep for naps or BT. About 30% of the time he wakes at 10:30/11pm to nurse and goes right back to sleep.

I just put him down for his morning nap... took 50 minutes.

[ZacsMumme]

Oh! Sure! BC of his poor napping, we're sort of stuck getting onto the EASY routine because of the bad napping. I'm trying to get a 4 hour going, but the naps sure are causing difficulty!

EASY does get a bit wonky with short naps, but thats okay..it sometimes becomes EASAES BTDT!

Okay hun, my first thoughts are that he is pretty OT. At this age LOs are usually doing about 2.5-3hours A time before a nap so your first A looks okay, but your second A is way too long, esp after a short nap.

While your LO is short napping you need to offer him more naps to keep OT at bay, as he is waking 20mins into a nap he isn't getting any deep sleep. My 10.5 month old does 2hours on a 20min CN so I suspect your LO can probably do about 1hr30 max.
I know it is hard, but can you APOP some naps? Basically do anything you can to get him to sleep longer so he can catch up, even if it is rocking/holding/going for a long drive. It is just to get him to catch up as we try to get him into a better routine.

Does he wake in the night or STTN?

What we need to do long term is get those A times around 2.5-3hours throughout the day. He will need a CN until he catches up too so your day will look something like this
WU 7am
E 7am solids 7.45
A 7-9.30
S 9.30-11
E 11am
A 11-1.45
S 1.45-3.15
E 3.15 solids 4.30
A 3.15-6
CN 6-6.20/30
A 6.30-7.30 (incl nursing)
BT 7.30
If you drop the CN you will need to do early BT for a while. 

Now we just need to get there I guess I am not 100% sure that the first nap is OT/UT - the rest are OT for sure. When you PD for the first nap is this based on his cues? The clock? both? How is he when he is crying in the cot...looks tired but fighting it or hyper crying/laughing, settled until in the cot or crying as soon as you go in the room?

And...last question sorry hun. How are you settling the crying before naps? shh/pat? PU/PD another method?

[MissAndi]

Thanks so much for your help. That routine is exactly what I want to aim for.

1st question: What is APOP? Not sure what that stands for.

He totally STTN. Only twice in the last 10 days has he woken up at all. Both times it was for a dreamfeed at 11:00. I would actually prefer he take good naps and wake up once or twice for a dreamfeed.  

We started basing his naps on his sleepy cues. I've done everything sort of on-demand since he was born, and it has gone fairly well for us (except the whole co-sleeping situation). He gives some pretty good ones (rubbing eyes, grabbing ear, yawning, glazed and fussy). Then we tried to lengthen his naps by putting him back down once he woke up...that's gone really, really poorly.

We don't really do shh/pat, we hold our hand on him and speak very softly to him. If that doesn't work, we graduate to PU/PD.

Today, we just napped on his sleepy cues and we've had a MUCH happier boy. Our schedule today going strictly on his sleepy cues:

W: 7:00
E: 7:00
A
S:8:30
W:9:15
E:9:15
A
E: 10:15 (we got a late start on his solids today...)
S: 11:00
W: 11:30
E: 11:45 solids
A
E: 12:45 nursing
S: 1:15
E: 1:45
A
S: 4:00
E: 4:30 nursing
A


Like I said he's a happy boy today, but I would like to figure out extending everything.

Today, he went to sleep during his naps with maybe 5 minutes of fussing and no crying. So, I definitely think his OT situation was affecting things dramatically.

[DSAN]

I'm SO not an expert, especially since we STILL struggle with short maps here, at 7 months, but i had a thought.

If he naps decently when you go by his cues, why not do that for a few days, try and get some consistency, the slowly lengthen his A times from there? Like 10 mins every 3 days till you get to a good place maps wise?

I think there is a post about that on the FAQ board. i would find it for you but am posting from my phone

Good luck!

Oh and APOP stands for accidental parenting on purpose,

[ZacsMumme]

Totally agree with Heather. EASY routines are guidelines and all LOs are different. You always want to follow your LO when you can and it sounds like you know yours really well

And re your settling technique...same thing! We did a mod version of shh/pat. I think you are spot on

[MissAndi]

Ok, fabulous. I'll work work more off his sleepy cues. We did that today, again, and it worked pretty well. Unfortunately his mid-afternoon nap was really short and he wouldn't take a catnap later, so getting him down was pretty difficult. He even cried his way through his bath, and he LOVES his baths.

Maybe tomorrow I will APOP if he has trouble in the afternoon nap so he's a calmer boy in the evening.

Thank you very much for your great help and reassurance!!

[DSAN]

I have ALWAYS had to APOP the last nap of the day if that makes you feel any better as long as he goes down well for the other naps it should't be a problem.

Glad to hear things are going better

[ZacsMumme]

I have ALWAYS had to APOP the last nap of the day if that makes you feel any better  as long as he goes down well for the other naps it should't be a problem.

Same here, esp now Z fights the CN with a vengence, if it was up to him he would have been on 1 nap days a month ago! Too heavy to rock now so we go for drives