Author Topic: managing NW and NF  (Read 1239 times)

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Offline mamaJulie

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managing NW and NF
« on: September 08, 2011, 15:35:14 pm »
My 7.5 mo bfed dd has multiple night wakings due to a combo of night feeding/prop/habit issues. After many disruptions over the summer I'm finally ready to address this... Just not sure what way would be best since she may still need a nf due to being bf. Would gw or pupd be best and how can I do those while keeping 1 nf for now? Tia! Julie


Offline mmom

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Re: managing NW and NF
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2011, 23:39:51 pm »
Hi. :)  What is your routine like now?  Can you post it in EAS format?
Kara


Offline mamaJulie

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Re: managing NW and NF
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2011, 02:42:31 am »
Yes, of course. Sorry I forgot to answer all the questions prior to posting. Sleep deprivation!

A between 6:20 and 7
E 8 nurse (not very interested due to feasting all night, I'm sure)
A 9 solids
S 10:15-11:30 or 12
E 12:15 nurse
A 1 solids
S 3-4:30 (ideally, but bec. we are all over the place by this time, I aim for a 3h A before this nap and that usually works, but sometimes only ends up a 40 min nap)
E 4:30 nurse
A 5:30 solids,
   6:15 bath, bed routine
E 7 nurse
S 7:30
after that many NW, never more than a 3h stretch of sleep.

A couple of times (like this morning) she was up at 5:45 AM - it was a NW turned EW as I couldn't settle her back down and it was close to 7 AM at that point. So today she napped at 9:15 - exhausted and I played it by ear most if the day, still managing to get BT around 7:30, which seems to work. I've tried earlier BT when we have an unsuccessful/short second nap and she can't seem to settle.

Nap routine is basically when it's been around 3 hrs of A time and I see she's getting tired/fussy I hold her and walk around the house with her or hold her and stand next to the window (this is very calming for her), usually give her the paci unless she is super calm. Then go into her room and sing lullaby by which time she usually rests her head on my chest. I hold her a bit more, give her a kiss and put her down. Often need to pick her back up if she's not drowsy enough.

Naps are from 40 min (less of these, thank goodness) to 2 hrs 10 min. Usually ends up having one longer (1.5 hrs or over) and one shorter (40 min-1 hr) nap.

BT is 7:30. Routine is bath, pjs, books with older sis, go to her room, say goodnight, turn off light and nurse. At some point she was going down awake at BT, but it's been a while now that she is pretty much out.:( Not great, I know...

She is BF, usually refuses bottle unless she is super hungry and even then will take just enough to keep from starving. We haven;t done a bottle in months. Can down one side in 10 min or less, but I have to keep encouraging her to re-latch most times during the day, she takes one side and a bit from the second after a lot of prompting. So during the day this on-off process can take 30 min sometimes as she will nurse then sit up and do everything but nurse and then nurse again, etc.

Wakes per night... I'd say at least 4 or 5 and lately I can't even put her back down because she starts fussing and rolling around and then crying as soon as I put her down.

Wakes and fusses and starts to cry if I don't go to her. When I pick her up she sort of pushes away and down towards my chest to try to latch. Early in the night I've been able to identify mantra and she settles back after about 5-10 mins but then is up 1/2 h later. She is up anywhere from 10-20 min to 1 hr or sort of half asleep sometimes because I;\'ve fallen asleep with her. :(

At night I've tried to just wait it out if it sounds like mantra, give her the paci (which she gets very agitated about and refuses), DH has gone to her at which point she gets very upset and takes a long time to settle (it's taken him over 2 hrs of AP)

A times are usually around 3 hrs and she plays on the floor, we go for walks, run errands (usually earlier in the day) and a lot of overstimulation from older sis.

Developmentally working on crawling - she's rolling and sooting and swaying all over the place, practicing to start crawling. No teeth yet but ped has said her upper and lower gums are swollen and it's been that way since she was 4 mos. She does not seem to be in pain. Very happy baby in general. Fussiness at times when very OT, but even then generally cheery. Actually, I think she is OT most of the time, but just lives with it (like me).:(

Prop is probably me and maybe the paci. The paci she can put in by herself and it comes out as soon as she is very calm/drowsy.

No real lovie - has a small giraffe in her crib that she throws around and chews on sometimes, but doesn't really have an attachment to it although I've carried it around and used it during snuggle time, etc.

Also, I'm pretty sure she is a spirited LO.:)

Sorry, I know this is A LOT of info, just wanted to address all those qs.:)

Thank you, thank you!


Offline mmom

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Re: managing NW and NF
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2011, 10:47:57 am »
((HUGS)))  I am wondering if after that first nap, if you could push her A time a bit.  You have a 3 hour 15+ A time first thing and a decent nap and then a 3 hour A with a shorter nap.  Maybe that nap is short, because you need more A.

After that short nap though, the next A is way too long.  That would definitely cause NWs and EWs.

Those first teeth can be terrible.  They definitely cause the most sleep disturbances as well.  Have you tried medicating at night?
Kara


Offline mamaJulie

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Re: managing NW and NF
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2011, 14:57:29 pm »
Thanks!  :) I'll try tweaking our EASY, because the afternoons are definitely difficult. We haven't tried medicating at night in a while, as doc advised to only medicate if she seems very unhappy, which she isn't  :-\.
I would like to try addressing the NWs though directly because I know that at least some are habitual wakings (she regularly wakes up at 11 PM, for example even if I tried a DF at 10). DH is on board for the weekend and I just didn't know what to do about the feedings. I'm sure she IS hungry because she's so used to feeding at night, but she won't take more during the day (believe me, I've tried ::)) as long as I feed at night. Ideally, he would settle her at NW and I would go to her at some point and feed her. I know there will be tears though even without PUPD, but at this point I'm so exhausted that I don't have much energy to devote even during the day let alone make changes during the night. :'(
What is the usual protocol for keeping a NF during sleep training?


Offline mmom

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Re: managing NW and NF
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2011, 18:37:43 pm »
(((HUGS))) The protocol with any sleep training is that you can't really train, until you have ruled out other things.  For example, I think that 11 pm NW could be OT from the long stretch to bed.  I think if you shorten that last A, you might eliminate the NWs so close to bt.  Routine issues should be addressed before sleep training.

As for other things, some will sleep train during teething and some won't.  If I know my LO is uncomfortable I APOP.  I will snuggle him to calm him down  or whatever he wants.  I also do this if I know he is having an OT NW.  But if I know the routine is ok and I have medicated him for teeth (when he is teething), I would do PU/PD.

If you think your LO is having NWs and is just used to eating, then you would do PU/PD at the feed you want to eliminate.  Since you do a DF at 10, you obviously don't need to feed in the next few hours after and would do PU/PD during those NWs.

Yes, unfortunately, screaming is part of the deal.  It is very difficult to listen to.  But the thing is, if you don't follow through and give in after a lengthy time of PU/PD, then you will be starting from scratch again.

What do you think?
Kara


Offline mamaJulie

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Re: managing NW and NF
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2011, 00:29:46 am »
That makes sense.:) So, I would just use GW or PUPD except for the one time when I am keeping the NF? I will wait until next weekend to start and use this week to tweak her EASY.
Last night I bfed "only" 3 times and APOPed the rest of the night. I plan on reducing to 1 NF over the week so that by the weekend I won't worry about her being hungry. I'm secretly hoping that this will help us avoid PUPD completely.  ;) You are so right though, when I start, I will definitely follow through. I know consistency is so important, that's why I was worried about confusing her with a remaining NF.  :-\
Thank you! :)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 01:11:00 am by mamaJulie »


Offline mmom

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Re: managing NW and NF
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2011, 22:04:40 pm »
The idea is that if they don't need the NF, they won't wake anymore once you refuse it for a few nights.  I think you might lose that 11 pm one anyway, once the A to bed isn't so long.  KWIM?

Good luck!  Keep us posted.
Kara


Offline mamaJulie

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Re: managing NW and NF
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2011, 03:51:00 am »
Some slow progress so far.:) Longer night wakings, but not very much opposition to the refusal. Fingers crossed!


Offline mamaJulie

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Re: managing NW and NF
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2011, 04:22:16 am »
So we're down to 2-3 NW, of which I did NF for 2 the past two nights and plan on doing only 1 tonight. Next step... independent sleep.:)


Offline mmom

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Re: managing NW and NF
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2011, 21:42:03 pm »
I am glad you are seeing progress. :)
Kara