Can you teach me how to fix/extend DS's naps please.

[~*Nicole*~]

DS has become a chronic short napper. This means that he is perpetually OT, which means that we can't gauge his A time properly which means he continues to short nap. Either that or we have to go out and he gets more OT b/c he can't handle our outings b/c he hasn't got enough sleep under his belt.

I have not been able to extend a nap for AGES. Plus I am working full time and he is with my mom during the days and she really isn't a very good BWer to begin with and has an even harder time now with having DD to look after as well. She really misses the windows and doesn't shh/pat.

Now he ends up falling asleep at his feedings b/c he is so tired all the time that he's starting to learn to need to eat to fall asleep! UGHHHH. We ditched his paci a couple of weeks back and after a rough week he has been pretty good without it. He was sleeping horribly with it so I knew it had to go.

Our EASY is just a disaster b/c of this. I am trying to remember how yesterday went. I am so tired I can't really remember but I think it went something like:

A-7:45
E-8:15 (had a NF at about 6 so wasn't hungry upon waking)
A-7:45-9:30 (was aiming for 2 hours but he was grizzly and tired before then so went with it)
S-9:30-10:30
A-10:30-12:40 (as a last resort I was trying to hold him out to a "normal" nap time based on when he SHOULD have woken up b/c for weeks we've been offering him a nap at shorter A times to compensate for the short naps and the OT hoping he'll sleep longer and he never does---probably a stupid idea though in hindsight but I was grasping at straws b/c I am out of ideas.)
E-12:00 or 12:30ish ( I honestly can't remember)
S-12:40-1:40
A-1:40-maybe 2:45/50....drove to the store and he started dozing on the way
S-nursed a very tired, grumpy baby in the baby carrier in the store and he fell asleep. I detached him and patted him and he slept from maybe 2:45-3:30 give or take as we walked through BJs

thought he would be able to do a catnap around 5:30...started to be grizzly around 5. Tried for the catnap, he wouldn't settle with my shh/patting so I got him up and tried again around 5:40. Then I gave up and just gave him a bath, fed him and put him to bed at 6:30....to which my unable to fall asleep independently for ANY naps LO, drifted peacefully off to sleep on his own in his crib by himself.

Then he proceeded to wake up about 3 times last night, near 11pm, 2am, and 5am needing to nurse each time to quiet down and fall back to sleep. But he doesn't take full feeds anymore and WAS waking only once overnight back around the time he turned 3 months old.

He goes back and forth between waking happy or waking crying.

[*Becky*]

Oh Nicole, this is so the same with us. I will be listening in although don't have any advice, I wish I did. Hugs, it is so frustrating isn't it. We are not even getting an hour. Grrr.

[ZacsMumme]

(HUGS) Nicole...this was the WORST age for Z and I...he was a chronic short napper (I'm talking 30mins ) I personally think you are nearly there with those A times. Yes 1hr is short, but its not 30/40mins so at least he is getting through 1 sleep cycle.

I think you are right in that the first A needs to get closer to 2 hours. I really really struggled to extend Z's A time and it took me 3 weeks to increase up 30mins so he was consistently napping at his best A time. I think you are doing the right thing but one thing I found helped to keep Z up a touch longer was to do a 5min walk around the house or read 1 book...it only has to be 5 mins diff to start with then hold a few days, then add 5 more. Soon you will be at 2 hours and hopefully if this is all he needs to get to a 1.5-2hour nap then you know you can do the same on the next nap and he will be rested for that CN.

What do you think?

[~*Nicole*~]

Yes 1hr is short, but its not 30/40mins so at least he is getting through 1 sleep cycle.

Some days they are only 30/40 mins. ALL day long. Then ONE day for ONE nap we got a 3 hour one!!!!

I think you are right in that the first A needs to get closer to 2 hours.

Unfortunately we were at 2 hours prior to all this and he was FINE. Also, I was telling my mom last week and this week while I was at work to shoot for 2 hours after wake up and he STILL short napped on her and we tried that all week. That's why I shortened it yesterday thinking he was OT and needed less A time temporarily. That didn't work either though, clearly

I honestly think he's just learned to catnap. I don't know how to stop it!

[*Becky*]

me neither and then feeds and naps clash. Aaagh!

[ZacsMumme]

Ahh okay...Do you think he needs more A time then? Closer to 2hr15? Any new developmental milestones that you think could be messing with sleep?

Have you tried W2S?

[clazzat]

We are right there too, nicole, so I am following along for moral support and hopefully some tips (although there is not much that I can do until his a times catch up with the times that it is actually possible for him to keep). Out of curiosity, does l sleep longer if you ap a nap? X only sleeps 30 minutes wherever he is - cot, car, sling, buggy - which seems odd to me.

I was talking to dh this evening and complaining about the fact that we only get 30 minutes regardless of a time and he pointed out that this is that really cr@ppy month of rubbish sleep from 16-20 weeks and we just have to ride it out!  Hopefully that means that you are near the point where it gets better.

[ZacsMumme]

that really cr@ppy month of rubbish sleep from 16-20 weeks and we just have to ride it out!

month...you are lucky We had 2.5months of it. BUT at 6 months it all came right and W2S helped a LOT.

I found this was the age Z stopped napping in the car etc longer than 30mins too. On a positive note he now sleeps longer in the car so it comes full circle!

[clazzat]

I'm being hopeful with saying a month - it took dd2 till she was 18 months to recover from this phase...

[~*Nicole*~]

Whether I AP or not doesn't seem to affect the length of his nap. I also don't think it really has much to do with A time totally other than that b/c the A time keeps changing b/c of the short naps, etc. his body can't get used to a consistent length A time.

I think I'll try W2S but I'm not sure when to go in since his nap times change, I guess I can shoot for 20 minutes and see if that does anything??

[~*Nicole*~]

PS-I was just thinking about it and I realized he has needed help to get to sleep for almost every nap whether it is me, DH or my mom putting him down. DH and I shhh/pat and I think my mom rubs his head or belly or something. BUT at night, I don't usually have to help him and he tends to fall asleep by himself. Is there something to that, do you think?

[clazzat]

Sounds quite like x - night is definitely easier for us. I would say that I have to help him (stroke his head) about half the time during the day.

[*Becky*]

same here - fine at night but not the day. Henry was the same.

[ZacsMumme]

Nicole Z needed help for a LONG time to go to sleep for naps but also was an independent sleeper at BT a lot earlier. I think some LOs need more help learning to nap IYKWIM.

For me the only thing that worked well was sneaking into Z's room and 'helping him' I would be in his room for 20-40mins though sometimes and you having 2 LOs may find that pretty tiring! Def give W2S a go...I had to toy with the timing a bit, and if I accidently woke Z I would APOP like crazy to get him back to sleep

Is your LO swaddled? He may be getting jolts....Z had chronic ones...in the end I actually gave up on the swaddle and put him on his side with blankets tightly tucked in and he seemed better, plus it was easier to help him through...I have a movement monitor though so you may not be comfortable with side sleeping yet.

[snowbird]

Aww, I'm having the same problem with short naps.  ZacsMumme - I'm holding out for 6 months now you've said that xxx