late to sleep - early to rise but not cranky

[Bex18]

hi mums,
i am really not sure what to think?  My DS (21 months) used to go to sleep at 7.30 at the latest, and wake around 6.30, NOW he is falling asleep around 8.30, and waking up between 6.00 and 6.30am, but he is waking up happy?? 

He normally goes down between 12-12.30 and will sleep for 1.5 hours.

What is the normal 'total' sleep for this age?  I thought it was around 13-14 hours?  My DS is only having 11.5.

Our routine/wind down is the same every night:

5.30 - 6.15 dinner and watches hi5
6.15-6.50 bath and teeth
6.50-7.10 picks a toy to take to bed, then stories in his cot

So lights out at 7.10, and he plays quietly in his cot for over an hour.

I don't know what I can do?  I almost need to change his body clock which is waking him up at 6.30, so was going to try wake to sleep at around 5.30, the only problem is at 5.30 it is light here, so i don't want him to stir, and hear the birds and realise that it is time to get up?

Any tips/suggestions for me?  i can't really put him to bed any earlier?  And is 10 - 10.5 hours of sleep enough for a 21 month old?

thank you in advance

[sianie]

Hi there...

The below link might be helpful:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85137.0

Taking a while to go to sleep can mean either UT or OT (although chatting/babbling tends to be more UT) but looking at your DS's total amount of sleep it is on the low side which would point more towards OT.

Is he teething at all? This can cause earlier WU's & taking longer to settle for sleeps.

[kiansmam]

sounds like my boy, but his bedtime is 7:30pm and he's waking 5-5:30am. hope you don't mind me tagging along

[*Kara*]

Has he always been on the low end with sleep needs?  If so, it could just be that you need to hold him off another 30 mins before BT...

I really think he may be a bit UT when you are putting him down, causing him to play... but he plays long enough that he ends up OT when he does drift off - leading to the OT EW, kwim?

[Bex18]

no no teething, he had all his teeth by the time he was 13 months old..  I don't think the 2 year old molars are on the way?  When he teethed he was super cranky and had many NW - he doesn't have any NW at the moment?

He was never a good sleep during the first year, was still feeding once in the night at 11 months, and had 4 min naps until he got to abour 7 months old.  He has never been one to sleep 12 hours at night?

I was wondering if I should not let him take his toy to bed?  But then he really likes it.

What A time should a toddler be having at 21  months?

He woke at 5.30 this morn.. not happy at all.

Does W2S only work if you do it an hour before they normally wake up?

Thank you

[*Kara*]

average is about 13-13.5 hrs total sleep.  Remember that some LO will need as much as one hour more than this or even one hour less.

I wouldn't take away the toy, he may well use it for comfort during the night and taking it away would cause NW that he needed you for.

W2S could be used if you think it is a habitual waking in the early morning - is it generally at the same time each day regardless of when he falls asleep?

What time did you put him down for a nap today?  I would really caution you about putting him down too soon as this would let him finish his night sleep and only aggravate the issue...

[sianie]

My DS is the same age as your LO & he can handle around 5.5hrs A-time in the AM & he generally does a slightly shorter A-time in the PM (around 5hrs 15mins), of course all LO's are different & some can handle more or less A-time than this.

If he got all his teeth early then it's a possibility that 2nd yr molars are moving around in the gums (which they do on & off for quite a while before they come through).

With W2S, I would maybe try doing it in the early hours (1/2am-ish) as the danger of doing wake to sleep at 4/5am is that LO's are naturally in a lighter sleep as this time of the AM & so are much more likely to wake & then not go back to sleep as they have already had a decent chunk of sleep.

If him having his toy with him when he sleeps isn't disturbing him too much then I would leave it, my DS has a toy that he always sleeps with & it definitely helps him to settle & feel secure.

Are you doing the same nap time regardless of WU? Did he transition to 1 nap at an early age? Has he ever napped longer than 1.5hrs?

[Bex18]

Hi Kara,
Once LO falls asleep, we take out the toy - he only has it to go to sleep.

He does wake around the same time each morning, but I am worried that if i do W2S, he will wake up for good for that day as it is light at that time in the mrning.  I do have block out blinds in his room, but some light still comes in.

It is only 7.20am here, so will give him lunch about 11am today, and then put him down around 12?  His activity time is about 6 hours from when he wakes in the morn until he goes down for his nap in the pm.

Sorry i meant A as in activity

[Bex18]

Ok  might try an earlier W2S - I had the same thoughts as you re: waking up good for the day. I only thought W2S worked if you did it an hour before they are due to wake up.  Do I wake him up completely, or just make him stir?

Having a toy in there means that he plays in his cot, so I am torn as to what I should do?  I can see how he can be UT when I put him to bed, but then become OT due to playing with his toy.  But I don't want to put him to bed even earlier, just so he can have a plaay and fall asleep at a reasonable hour? Arghh.

If he wakes up early (like today), I will try and put him down earlier?  If he wakes around 6.15-6.30, I normally have him in bed by 12-12.30.  I don't let him take a toy for his day sleeps, but it still takes him a while to fall asleep.  I haven't looked for tired signs for a long time..  Also, he goes to daycare, and they get him to sleep at 12pm (he is always the last to go to sleep, and she pats his back which I don't do because he would want to play), but she said that when there are other children asleep, it almost prompts them to go to sleep too.

He had transitioned properly by 13 months, so yes, quite young.  He would do anywhere from 1.5 hours to 3 hours, but I could never see a trend?

[*Kara*]

I would really consider trying a couple of things for a week to see what works - not all at the same time, pick one and give it a go - if no change in a week, try something else.

1. W2S earlier in the night - just make him stir, don't wake him up.
2. Cap his nap to 1 hr 20 mins (sometimes pulling them out during a sleep cycle will cause them to be more tired overall)
3. Put him down 30 mins later at bedtime.

[Bex18]

I might try the W2S this week and see how we go.

If he  is waking happy, and is happy during the day, is it possible that he only needs a total of 11.5 - 12 hours of sleep a day?

[*Kara*]

Absolutely.  The tricky part is finding the right balance of day/night sleep since he will still need some sort of nap for a while yet

Good luck!

[Bex18]

I was only concerned because I didn't think he was having enough 'total' sleep in a 24 hour period.  He always woke happy which is normally a good sign.

I must be jinxing something now as I put him down today at about 11.50, and he was asleep by 12.15, but woke up at 13.15... but he is happy?  Not sure how as he woke at 5.30 this morning so I thought he would be so tired.  So now that he is up from 13.15, i will have to put him down earlier as I don't want him to get OT.. sometimes it seems impossible to get out of the UT/OT loop

[*Kara*]

It is a bugger!  I have BTDT more times than I want to count... I have found that set naps are the only way out for us... it's tough for a couple days, but DD does adapt well.  I am very lucky to have a textbook angel baby

[Bex18]

BTDT?  I have a spirited toddler (was a spirited baby too!!)