3.5 month old eating very little/nothing from 930am to 330pm

[yjlzelik]

Something funny is going on... My DD wakes up at BF well then is basically not interested until the afternoon. Is she eating too much at night? She's 12 lb 2 oz at this point. Was full term and seems to be always a little over tired. I am having alot of problems getting her to nap.

I find it is really hard to get all the naps in there because I need to leave the house to buy food and other essential activities... My DH doesn't have time to do these things and I don't live near my parents/inlaws so its up to me!

Here is her schedule

7 30 /8 wake up
8 BF
8 20 Activity (very low key)
930/10 Sleep (depending on how long it takes her to  fall asleep .. we are still working on sh/pat etc. - how do I know this isn't becoming a crutch???)
11/11 30 wake up
11 30 try to BF
12 Activity
1230/130 pm Sleep (again depending on how long it takes her to fall asleep)
2/3 pm wake up and BF
Depending on when she wakes up I try to get a catnap in but there isn't always time.. then she gets very tired. Sometimes I try to put her to bed earlier but then she wakes up after an hour and SCREAMS so I end up nursing her. Mistake?
5 pm BF
7 pm bedtime
9 pm DF 4 oz of EBM
11 pm DF 4 oz of formula
4 am BF

Thanks so much for your help!!

[yjlzelik]

I don't know if I posted this in the right place.. sorry!

[yjlzelik]

does anyone have any ideas??

[yjlzelik]

Well I am not working towards A time exactly... I am still trying to figure her out! She seems to get tired after about 45 minutes which is very little for her age (3.5 mo) I think. She won't take a pacifier or anything like that. If she won't calm down after about 45 minutes I usually end up nursing her to sleep.

If she takes too long to fall asleep for her pm nap she gets so tired... then when she finally falls asleep I never know if I should wake her or not. Yesterday she didn't fall asleep until 540. (Her last nap ended at 3 something I think before that.)

As soon as I think I understand her everything changes!!! I am afraid to get her in the habit of nursing to sleep but I am going a little nutty trying to get her routine sorted out. Seriously how can any one leave the house while their baby is on BW and has less then 2hr A time??? I am dealing with some postpartum anxiety which I just started some meds for. I have so much trouble falling asleep.. she been asleep for 30 min and here I am typing away at the computer (its 6:50 am). I just don't know how I am supposed to be handling this!!! Before I read BW I was 'demand feeding' but like many new mothers I just fed my LO every time she cried and I didn't put her for naps at routine times or anything. I have been trying at this for maybe 6 weeks now! Maybe she is still too little to be predictable enough or something? I would say she is a textbook/angle baby.. very sweet and even when she's OT she isn't terribly fussy.

Should I be trying to push off her NW feedings or something? I am so confused and overwhelmed and there is so much different advice out there....... gah!!!!!! (Thank you for listening to my rant :S)

[Shiv52]

Firstly {{{{hugs}}}}}

You are doing great. 

Its not just BW babies and mummies that have a hard time leaving the house!  Its all new mummies and babies as it seems by the time you feed them and get set to go it is almost time to feed them again.  It will get easier.  I used to find it I was ready to go as soon as I fed my DDs then we could get out for a huge chunk of time as I would often do the next feed out and about. 

OK firstly looking at your EASY, your feeds look fine.  I think though would work toward a 12 hour day so if your LO is up at 7.30/8am then make that your bedtime too.    So in terms of feeding at night I would feed at 5pm and then feed again at 7/7.30 and then into bed and then do your DF at 10.30/11pm as I think those 2 feeds early in the night are too close and may cause problems  as she gets bigger as they are when she should be sleeping. 

Here is a link that I always found helpful:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652

So at 3.5 months most LOs have an A time of 1.5 hours so if she wakes at 7.30 then you'd be aiming for her to be napping by 9am.  More than that and she could end up OT.  Does that make sense? 

Here are examples of some routine people are using at this age:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164027.0

Before I read BW I was 'demand feeding' but like many new mothers I just fed my LO every time she cried and I didn't put her for naps at routine times or anything.

By the way, demand feeding is exactly what I did with both of mine in the early months.  It is the BEST way to establish your supply.  BFing advice is always changing and has changed a lot since Tracy wrote her books and we think had she not sadly past she would have updated her info to incorporate the current BFing advice and she would have advocated for demand feeding as opposed to feeding on a set schedule for BFing babies so you did totally the right thing.  Her NFs look great.  It is not unusual for a BF bub to take a DF and 1-2 NFs at this age.  There is also a big growth spurt at 4 months so keep at eye out for that and just feed, feed, feed as it will really help your supply too. 

{{{hugs}}} for the anxiety.  I had awful anxiety after DD1 and it was truly the worst thing i have experienced so do be kind to yourself. 

[yjlzelik]

Thank you so much for your support... I'm really loosing it over here :S

So am I supposed to stick with the same BT even LO is tired? (i.e. if she won't go down for a pm nap)

She seem to get tired way faster the 1.5 hours... by then she is too tired and can't settle I think. Or maybe she gets OS? She is super alert and aware of everything and has been since she was born.. but even if I just pop her in the swing and she hangs out (or something low key like that) she still has a hard time making it for a whole 1.5 hours.

The anxiety is really getting to me.... I hope the meds kick in soon! It is beyond frustrating when she is asleep at night and I am wide awake!!!!!!!!!! I just don't know what do with myself anymore. It's amazing one could be so tired and just not be able to sleep.

[Shiv52]

So am I supposed to stick with the same BT even LO is tired?

Sorry i was just talking in general.  Of course you can do EBT if your LO needs it. 

How much A time do you think she can manage? 

I think it is great you are ssh-patting and getting her to sleep in her cot but at such a young age I really found it was better that they got sleep than how they got there so it is totally fine to do a nap a day in the pram if she will sleep that way or in a sling.  An OT/OS baby isn't going to settle independently at the best of times so however you need to get her to take that pm nap then do it.  So long as you are having 1-2 naps a day in the cot I wouldn't worry.  Once you have a routine going that you know suits her it will be much easier to work on independent sleep. 

When you are putting her down, is she fully awake or do you help her get drowsy first?

The anxiety is really getting to me.... I hope the meds kick in soon! It is beyond frustrating when she is asleep at night and I am wide awake!!!!!!!!!! I just don't know what do with myself anymore. It's amazing one could be so tired and just not be able to sleep.

{{{{hugs}}} I remember that.  I remember getting up for a NF and then getting DD settled to sleep and then just lying there (and thats when the anxiety would hit) and just as I'd manage to get back to sleep she's be awake again. 

There are some good tips here for dealing with anxiety:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=209933.0

What helped me at night was basic relaxation exercises.  So lie in bed and start with your toes.  Stretch them and imagine them relaxing.  Then move to your ankles.  Do the same thing.  Then your calves, knees etc.  Right up to the top of your head.  The first week or two it would take me to go through my whole body a few times before I'd sleep. After a few weeks though I'd often be asleep by my knees!  The distraction of it helped to as it stopped me lying there thinking about the fact I wasn't sleepign and getting frustrated and also kept my mind from thinking of things that made me anxious.   

{{{hugs hun}}}}  It will get easier xxx

[yjlzelik]

Thank you so much for the suggestions. When I put her in for her first AM nap (about an hour after she wakes up) she falls asleep totally on her own... so far. It's been the one consistent thing, although this morning she let out a few protest noises before settling down. As the day goes on it seems to get more and more difficult. She really doesn't fall asleep easily anywhere! It takes her 30/40 min of walking in a stroller or in the car... she just stay up! She isn't terribly fussy although she does get dark smudges under her eyes.

I am afraid of AP nursing to sleep or something like that... not that she even falls asleep nursing consistently!

I will try the relaxation technique you mentioned!!! I just feel so overwhelmed with everything. There are always dishes in the sink (we don't have a dishwasher) and laundry to do etc. etc. How do people do this?

[yjlzelik]

If she wakes up at night I should always feed her right??? She's too little to worry its something else?

[Shiv52]

Well that great she sleeps so easily at her first nap.  How long does she sleep for normally?

There are always dishes in the sink (we don't have a dishwasher) and laundry to do etc. etc. How do people do this?

I think it was around 3-4 months that was a bit of a crunch point for me.  I remember talking to DH and saying that it was impossible to get anything done with the baby.  I BF and it took so long and then by the time she fell asleep I just had time to feed myself and then she was awake and needed fed etc.  having a baby is all consuming especially at this young age.  At 3-4 months after she was born I remember making up a rota for me and DH to try and split things up a bit so we were both sharing the house chores more.  In the end he took a few jobs that were his....mainly emptying the bin every night and dishes after dinner.  He also bathed the baby and then I fed her and got her to sleep.  Two nights a week he took her and got her to sleep after I fed her so i could go have a bath and do nothing for an hour.  That ME time really helped my anxiety too.  Are you getting any time to yourself?  

But in terms of the house.....I did the bare essentials and didn't worry about the rest.  I remember someone on here saying 'until you are getting 5 hours sleep your DH or yourself really shouldn't expect you to get much done at all as  that is less sleep than anyone can manage on'.  I always thought if I managed to get showered, dressed and had more than biscuits for lunch then it was a good day.

{{{hugs}}}

[Shiv52]

If she wakes up at night I should always feed her right??? She's too little to worry its something else?

How often is she waking?  Just that one time after the DF? 

[yjlzelik]

It depends.. last night she woke up at 220 and 545. but i put her to bed really early (6pm) because she missed her pm nap/cat nap and was very tired. So far I was doing two dream feeds at 9pm and 11pm, then she was waking up at 4am. It seems like its changing though?

[Shiv52]

Thats not too bad at all.  General rule of thumb is that  they should be able to go as long at night as they did in the day so if you are feeding 3 hourly in the day then you'd expect her to go at least that at night.  And if she woke say 1hr30  after falling asleep you would resettle without feeding. 

AM wondering is she getting OT as the day goes on especially with that CN refusal.  will she sleep in a sling?   I always found it better to AP that last nap if she was being a pain about it and only do EBT if I really needed to. 

How have things been today?

{{hugs}}

[yjlzelik]

Sorry I somehow missed part of your previous post... I am really trying to eat more!!!! I have lost weight a little too fast I think and I notice that my EBM has less fat in it. It's very hard to find the energy to make something healthy. That's a good point about the sleep. My DH was going to take care of DD last night but I woke up at 2am for no reason and then at 330am because I could hear her crying while he made a bottle. (I was in the guest room.) Then at 5am (when DH gets up for work). GRRRR!! I would feel SO much better without those extra wakings. My DH tries so hard to help and I wake up anyways! He really is so helpful.. He has a very long day (5 30 am - 6/7 pm) so I feel bad asking him to do much but at this point I just have to. It seems like this is a difficult time because LOs can't fall asleep anywhere.. they are too aware of the world! But they still need to sleep most of the day.

Yesterday DD woke up at 540am for the day (I guess due to the EBT). Then I just stuck her in my bed but she didn't even fall asleep there... I was too tired to do much else. She only nurses properly if I'm in a chair anyways. Then I had a dr appt and had to do errands.. basically she had one 40 min nap in her crib and then another 30 min nap in the stroller. She has a hard time getting more then that unless I get there to shh her through the transition. It takes her FOREVER to fall asleep in the car/stroller.. 30/40 min!

Last night I tired using this baby massage lotion to give her a little rub before bed and she had a terrible reaction to it!!!!! It said hypoallergenic and check to see if it suggested to test it on you LO first but it didn't... Thank G-d it was ok in the end. She was screaming and I kept her in a bath for a while then gave her Tylenol (as per Dr's orders). So scary!

In the end she didnt go to bed until about 8 poor thing!!!!!!!! I nursed her too sleep because I thought she could use the extra cuddles.

Soo..
11 DF
330am E
7am E then she went back to sleep but she didn't make it through the cycle transition
730 am S
830 am A
930 am E
1015 am S (I just put her in her crib and she fell asleep with in 25 min)
and here we are... I know its a bit off schedule but we had a rough night last night!

I tried to relaxation technique you suggested.. it help me fall asleep in way less time last night THANK YOU

[Shiv52]

Sorry I missed this reply xx


How are things? 

Awful about the baby lotion.  How scary for you all.