10 month old NW and EW

[AbNikki]

Hello ladies,

MY 10 month old YDS wakes 2-3 times a night sometimes nurses sometimes doesn't.  I can't really let him cry it out too much because he will wake up ODS.  So I pick him up to sooth him.  Sometimes, when I know that he is fed and gave him something for his teeth I do let him cry a bit and he goes down in 5-10 minutes.  He has almost 6 teeth and salivates a lot.  Refuses DH at night and screams more if he picks him up.  Wants only mama.     He does know how to self sooth, even though sometimes I nurse him to sleep. 
Since he is still in the room with us he wakes up early (6am when I go to work or earlier).  Would really love to get him in the same room with ODS, but afraid they will be waking each other up.  Both of them are VERY early risers.  5:30 - 6.  (I guess thats another post for the ODS.. lol)
He is a good eater and has been on solids since 6 months.  He chews very well and I offer him anything that I am eating.  Sometimes he will take it out of my mouth.. lol
Basically mama is very tired and needs sleep.
Last week YDS has been refusing his pm nap and if he does nap it’s for 30-45 minutes.
5:30am - 6am Wake up
6:00 -8:00am Activity (he has the run of the house most of the day and he is all over the place)
8:00 am Fruit with cereal
9:45 6oz bottle of BM
10am - 11 (up until last week he napped for 2 hours)
11:00am -1:00pm Activity
1:00pm Lunch (usually a soup with different veggies and meat)
2:00pm – 3:45pm Activity
3:45pm 6oz bottle of BM
4:00pm – 5:00 pm nap (last week refused 2nd nap. )
6:00pm Yogurt with cereal
6:30pm Bath
7:00 Bed time.  (Nurse him before bed, sometimes he falls asleep and sometimes he doesn’t)
11:00pm  Night feed (never eats more then 4oz.  Tired putting cereal in bottle, did not help the NW)
He does not have a set time that he wakes up.  Sometimes 1am sometimes 2am.   When he wakes at this time sometimes he refuses to nurse, usually a mantra cry if I let him be he’ll go back to sleep.  Lately he is more demanding.  I think he misses me, since I work full time and come home @6:15 and only get 45 minutes with him.
He does not take the paci, never was a big fan.. so sometimes nursing him is all I got. 
He does not have a lovie, not attached to any specific toy. 
Last few weeks he has been standing on his own, letting go more often.
Usually up at around 4 – 4:30 for a feeding, nurses for 10 minutes on one side and then back to sleep. 
Sorry this is so long, tried to include everything. 
Thanks for the help.

[Bex09]

Hi, I am glad you came here for some advice and help, I know how hard it is when you are sleep deprived. Firstly, please don't let your DS CIO, there are much gentler ways to sort out his NW and letting him cry is not the BW way.

He is at an age where he could well be needing to cut a little daytime sleep. Have you read this? http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163278.0

I think that he is maybe getting a little OT as the day goes on due to having a short morning nap and then a long 5 hour A time before his second nap. He is then finding it hard to settle down for this pm nap. Also his A time to BT is really quite short for his age and compared to his other A times. Have you seen the sample routines here? http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164031.0

Maybe if we tweak his routine a little and get his A times balanced out it may sort the NWs out. Let me know what you think?

[AbNikki]

Thank you.  I will try these suggestions and will get back to you. 

[Bex09]

OK, good luck. Post back if you need any help with LO's routine. Hope all goes well.

[AbNikki]

I have been putting him down for the second nap earlier and he sleeps better, but he wakes up at 4:45-5am.  Can i strech his BT little by little from 7 to 8pm?
My next question is, how long to I dream feed him (@11pm)?

Thank you

[Bex09]

Hi, that is great news that he is sleeping longer. Not so great that he is still waking early for you.

For some babies that tend to do a set amount of night sleep a later BT can help and the way to do that would be to push it gradually later and later each few days. But if your DS is suffering from being OT this is unlikely to sort the problem out. If you stretch his BT and therefore his last A time becomes longer, it will likely make him more OT.

Do you want to post what the past couple of days have looked like and we can see if there is anything else we can look at? How have the NW been?

As for DF, in my opinion I would wean that now. With babies over 7/8 months it often disturbs them more to have it than not. Plus if he is not that interested he probably doesn't need it. When we weaned it we reduced it by 1oz every two or three nights and also brought the feed forward by 30 mins. So night one we gave 5oz instead of 6oz and fed at 10.30 instead of 11.00pm. Night 3 we gave 4oz and fed at 10.00, then 3oz at 9.30, 2oz at 9.00 and then we just dropped it because she refused to drink any! HTHs.

[AbNikki]

WOW..  Holy early wakings batman!!!  This morning had a wake up of 4:30am!!!
This is how our weekend went... YDS woke up at 5am Saturday morning so he was very tired and went down for his first nap at 9:45 and slept until 12:00.  He refused his second nap so I put him to bed for the night at 6:30pm with a DF at 11:30 and another quick nursing session at 4:30 and he slept until 6am.  All in all great night.
Sunday he was on schedule, first nap 10-11:45 and second nap 3-4.  After a walk and playing with ODS, BT was at 7:30.  Again, DF at 11:30 and woke up for the day at 4:30 am.  (his usual night snack wake up)  He refused nursing at that time and only wanted to be out of the crib and playing.  I would like to keep putting him down 7:30 (regular BT is 7pm) for a few days to see if we can maybe move his BT.  I don't care much about myself not getting sleep, but at this point it’s starting to affect ODS's sleep.  Since YDS is a talker, he wakes ODS up with his ramblings. 
As far as the DF, last few weeks he has been taking anywhere from 4-6 ounces.  I will start decreasing it and will see how that goes. 
Thanks for all the good advice ladies.. Hope you can help with this EW. 

[Bex09]

Oh my that is one EW!! You poor thing. I really am thinking that DS is starting on the 2:1 transition. Did you check out those links? The fact that he had such a great long nap after nearly a 5 hr A time and the pm nap refusal and EW all suggest he could be ready to start having one of his naps capped. What do you think?

Looking at your days it may be that you need to balance his A times out a little, as his A time to BT was only 3.5h, yet the day before he napped well after 4h 45 A time. So he could be a little UT at BT, sleep a short night, leading to OT the next day and so on. You then get into a loop of OT/UT. Does that make sense?

[AbNikki]

It does make sense.  So you are saying if he has the 2 naps he should have a lter BT?
I need to read up on the 2-1 transition.  My ODS napped twice until after 1. 
The day before when he had one nap he slepped 6:30 - 6:30.  But towards the end he looks sooooo tired.  Bags under his eye and rubbing his ear.  I'm a bit at a loss here. 
So what do I tackle first?  The DF or straching the A time or the 2-1 transition?

[Bex09]

You would really get a better idea of 2:1 and how to tackle it if you read the link I posted. That explains how you would go about starting to cap one of the naps and how to choose which one to cap. Also if you join the ladies on the 2:1 board, they will offer great support. It may take some months until your LO is ready for 1 nap yet but by capping one nap your day should be more balanced out and hopefully the EW will get better.

I wouldn't say that if he has two naps he needs a later BT, it is more about A times and how long his day is. SO I was just meaning that he can obviously handle a decent A time and 3.5 hrs seems a bit short. Take a look at some of the sample routines where there is a short nap and a longer one and see what you think.

[AbNikki]

Hello again.. Wanted to give you a bit of an update.  
We are down to 2 - 1 hour  naps, 10-11am and 3-4 with a BD around 7:30.  We were doing well for a while until I cut out the DF
Now he is up at 2 am to nurse and then again at 4, then he will sleep untill 5:30 or 6:30.
Do I go back to the DF? Do I implement PU/PD?
He has been refusing his am nap at least once a week so I'm trying to push his am nap to 11....

Thank you!

[Bex09]

Did you wean the df gradually or cut it out cold turkey?

[AbNikki]

I was down to 3oz and he just started refusing it.  I tried for 2 more nights and he was still refusing it, so I stopped.
Today I started shortening his am nap to 45 minutes, will let him sleep a bit longer in the afternoon and will try to strech BT.

[Bex09]

He shouldn't really need those night feeds at his age. Have you tried settling him other than feeding him? How long have the NF been going on?

[LouiseV]

hey - I just wanted to add something to the wonderful advice you've already received. I basically 'convinced' my LO that he wanted his lovie (a really soft blanket) by simply choosing one that felt like my dressing gown which I'd noticed he liked to snuggle into, and then using it for our bedtime story snuggle and putting it near his head for naps and sleep. I'd just always have it around for cuddle times and after a couple of weeks I noticed he had started reaching for it and getting excited when I handed it over. He wouldnt have attached on his own, but now its a great tool for getting him to nap outside of the house and I even noticed he yawns now when I give it to him at bedtime.

Not sure if it will work for you, but it might be another useful tool to add to your arsenal if you wanted?