Author Topic: Probiotics info please :)  (Read 2315 times)

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Offline ZacsMumme

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Probiotics info please :)
« on: November 20, 2011, 06:18:14 am »
Not sure if this is in the right place so feel free to move  ;D

So I have brought some Probiotics for Zac as follows:
Primadophilus children powder with FOS. True potency 3 billion CFU (per tspn) with bifidobacteria and lactobacillus
7 strain in powdered form.
Dosage 1/2 tsp 2 X daily between meals

I am wondering if anyone can give me some more info about them....specifically
- Why do they need to be given between meals? Does it matter if I give them with a meal if I 'forget' to give between?  :-[ (You know what I did today now >:( )
- Are there any adverse side effects (even if unusual) that I need to be aware of? Zac is pretty sensitive to everything ATM ::)

Thank you thank you thank you, the lady in the health store was not that helpful, and more interested in telling me Zac reflux was because of his 6 week immunisations and the fact I BF and am not everything free :(  >:(


***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Truly Blessed

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Re: Probiotics info please :)
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2011, 07:20:49 am »
Hi again Hon,

Here's what I know about them after Sam had a horrendous Tummy bug. You give them for 1 week for every day of antibiotics. However I have been advised and found that the probiotic yoghurts are a great alternative and enough to do the same job and then you don't have to worry about when to give them etc. Sam loves the Activia yoghurts. Don't know if they're available to you. I haven't given the actual probiotics so I'm not sure about administering them  :-\. Sam has a probiotic yoghurt every day and hasn;t had any tummy problems since.

Hope this is some help.



Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Probiotics info please :)
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2011, 07:27:10 am »
Thankies :-*
Zac has yogurt almost every day and they are toddler ones with probiotics. It is great to know they have enough in them to help :)  
He has had so many issues that really I am trying this as well in the hope it eases what I think are tummy troubles/gut issues. There is every chance they wont make a difference, but I am hoping they do.  

At the moment he is on day 17 following the MMR and is still not himself. The Dr agrees he is sensitive to the side effects but come day 21 I am taking him back if he is still like this. I guess a part of me wonders if him being so sensitive means that giving him things like probiotics may be good, but also possibly trigger another side effect IYKWIM :(

Not sure where all these sensitivities come from really....DH and I can eat everything, though DH does get IBS I guess.
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Truly Blessed

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Re: Probiotics info please :)
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2011, 08:16:16 am »
Hi Hon,

The probiotics counteract antibiotics and promote healthy bacteria in the gut (I'm sure you know this  ::) ) so if you think he has a tummy issue, it should be okay. I think you need to err on the side of caution with regards to the length of period they're given. Too many can also have an adverse side effect so I've been informed, it's about striking a healthy balance. I can't help but wonder if sticking with just the yoghurt may be the best idea for now as there is already a lot going on in his little body KWIM  ??? I know what it's like when you will try everything to get a result  ;). I'm so sorry that Zac is so off..poor mite, it does sound like an extreme reaction. I would take him to the Docs for sure, even if just to put your mind at rest.

What a week this has been eh  ???

(X)



Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Probiotics info please :)
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2011, 21:49:12 pm »
Too many can also have an adverse side effect so I've been informed, it's about striking a healthy balance.
Yes I am wondering if I should have given 1/2 a dose to start with for a week or so. Z is very gassy/squirmy and definitely eliminating a lot of poop after hours of discomfort ATM...but this was happening before too so hard to know IYKWIM.

He has been having the yogurts for months every day with no change :( Hence why  thought to try this.

What a week this has been eh
I know :( Thanks for posting hun :-*
***Sara***
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DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline EloysH

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Re: Probiotics info please :)
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2011, 23:21:22 pm »
Hey Sara,

Did you take probiotics whilst breastfeeding or pregnant?

ok so the probiotic you have sounds great.  :) Probiotics do create some extra acid in the gut for the most sensitive babies, they do need to be started slower than recommended.  These are babies that are very sensitive however.

It is not essential to give them on an empty stomach, even though it is optimal.  I give all mine with meals and that has been ok'd by my naturopath and biomedical GP.

I have received alot of advice about probiotics and one circumstance that I have been given that indicates a baby should be taken off probiotics is if the practicioner suspects and overgrowth of the good bacteria - it is usually bifidobacteria  as it colonises quite easily.  But this is usually for mothers who have taken probiotics long term whilst pregnant and breastfeeding or else have an overgrowth of this themselves.  My Kai has been on probiotics for around 12 months and he still has undergrowths of all the good species  ::) (he had comprehensive digestive stool analysis done).  I would say that for babies on reflux meds probiotics is a must because the lack of stomach acid means that the bad bacteria has more opportunity to enter and thrive in the gut without challenge.   The stomach acid is the first line of defence against the bad guys.

I have been consulting a lady who is very specialised in the area of microbiology and the gut - and her niche is working with children who are only tolerating a handful of foods at 3,4 and 5 years old and also on reflux meds.  :o She gets their gut bacteria analysed and puts them through a course of treatment and diet to balance it all out and she gets these kids off meds 9 times out of 10. She was telling me that most reflux kids have massive overgrowths of bacteria in their lower bowel.  She believes is it is consequence of no stomach acid.  So really, you can't loose with being on probiotics.

Now if hubby has IBS then I would say his gut bactera is probably out of whack and his gut needs some work - these conditions are inherited by our children too.  For me IBS is a symptom of a bacterial imbalance in the gut - perhaps even leaky gut or damaged gut lining.

If you look at the reflux as a symptom of a gut that is out of whack, then we are in a position to potentially heal the source of the issue.  Of course with reflux there is an anatomical issue too.  But if you are looking at a baby that suffers excees wind, bloating, abdominal pain, unsettledness, irritability, loose and profuse stools,  or constipation, poosible food intolerances,we can assume there is more going on than just anatomical reflux issues.   The gassiness gets created because food ferments and putrefies instead of getting digested properly. Bad bacteria produces alot of noxious gases as it multiplies and this creates a back pressure in the lower bowel - which in turn worsens the reflux.

Is he on wheat and dairy?  I would take a long hard look at that... and try to cut out to see if it helps. That alone won't heal the gut, but will give it a break  until it comes good.

I have found so many answers for Kai in pursuing doctors that treat the gut and are wholistic.  There are people that can give advice on what to do about that in NZ I am pretty sure.... I might know where to find out, as there are some NZ people within my support network of people pursuing biomedical treatments.

Now don't get me started about immunisations.  I have taken the decision that because Kai is immuno compromised - his gut is in need of some major healing, that he will not cope with the toxicity from further immunisations at this stage.  So we are holding off until he is 2 and when his immune system is more developed and hopefully when his gut is starting to come good.  If you want someone to listen to your concerns about this starting since immunisations, then it will need to be a wholistic Dr. 


Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Probiotics info please :)
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2011, 00:42:20 am »
Eloise thanks for posting hun :)

Wow, so much great information...! I am currently giving Z the probiotics with his morning bottle before his nap (around 10.30-11am) I have cut out the 2nd dose for now but will re-introduce it after 5 or so days.

I didn't take probiotics when pregnant or BF I just ate yogurts with probiotics in them.

If you look at the reflux as a symptom of a gut that is out of whack, then we are in a position to potentially heal the source of the issue.  Of course with reflux there is an anatomical issue too.  But if you are looking at a baby that suffers excees wind, bloating, abdominal pain, unsettledness, irritability, loose and profuse stools,  or constipation, poosible food intolerances,we can assume there is more going on than just anatomical reflux issues.   The gassiness gets created because food ferments and putrefies instead of getting digested properly. Bad bacteria produces alot of noxious gases as it multiplies and this creates a back pressure in the lower bowel - which in turn worsens the reflux.
THis is what I feel may be happening with Z.

I have been talking to my mum a lot about this (I come from a very scientific, evidence based research driven family which sometimes makes this stuff hard to get them on board) and she is starting to see what I mean which is great. I am able to discuss this IRL now :) She has just found an article in the best practice medicine magazine re reflux, losec and the gut etc I am about to go over to read. Basically we (mum and I and DH) are starting to feel Zacs losec dose needs to be reduced and probiotics given along with simple food, to get his balance back. He is certainly suffering from gut issues.

I have tried elimination in the past and it didnt help...that said he has a few things at play so maybe trying again now may give a better result. I have been trying to give him a lot more fruit and veges and less meat/carbs.

There are people that can give advice on what to do about that in NZ I am pretty sure.... I might know where to find out, as there are some NZ people within my support network of people pursuing biomedical treatments.
If you did get any info on who in NZ is worth pursuing that would be wonderful thank you. I a also going to get mum to investigate (she is a practice nurse but worked everywhere so can try to find out that info through her med colleagues)

I am struggling to get Z to eat a lot of foods with lumps, and when he does they do pass through sometimes as they were going in...this makes me worry that the digestive system isn't doing all it is meant to IYKWIM.

Thank you so much again....you are so so helpful :) :)
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 00:45:04 am by ZacsMumme »
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline EloysH

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Re: Probiotics info please :)
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2011, 02:06:09 am »
I will ask around for biomedical Dr's in NZ.    I have loads of websites I can refer you to.... I will make sure to find the most reputable info and links for you guys  :)  Will ask tonight on my biomedical forum - I have a group of people I speak to who are all pursuing biomedicence to resolve their kids food intolerances there are some NZ members who have Dr's there.

Most of the treatments I am pursuing for Kai are evidence based and scientific (I am a research scientifist myself ;) )  and most of it has been extensively clinically trialled.  Some treatments I have indulged knowing there is not alot of science but more curious though  ;)   

 I have every belief in biomedicene as field as is it is pulls together all the science disciplines to diagnose and heal one's body and relies havily on the biochemistry of the body and nutritional science, which is just not taught to GP's in much detail at all. I can't even begin to put everything in writing, it makes for alot of good dinner conversation :)

The undigested lumps would be to due to no stomach acid.. whilst normal Dr's say it is quite ok and normal, a biomed Dr would say it's in indication of low stomach acid  and very slow sluggish digestion- in this case we know he has no stomach acid!

I am increasingly uncomfortable with the meds side, it has been such a worry to me at what it's doing to his digestion and his gut.... we are the point where very shortly we will force a wean off meds and support his body to get through it as I feel it is doing more harm than good at the moment and really is a band aid solution to manage his gut and that is all.

 I am just waiting for one more test - for parasites to come back a long 2 week wait.  In the meantime we are going on half dose!

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Probiotics info please :)
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2011, 19:46:51 pm »
The undigested lumps would be to due to no stomach acid.. whilst normal Dr's say it is quite ok and normal, a biomed Dr would say it's in indication of low stomach acid  and very slow sluggish digestion- in this case we know he has no stomach acid!
This is what I feel...and as you say our Dr (who is lovely) doesn't seem to think it is a problem. Both my mum and I are sure now that there is something going on in his gut.

Today I am dropping his losec dose to 10mg (from 20) and as of yesterday I have removed cows milk from his diet. I will up his Probiotics in a few days and focus on what he is eating. To be honest yesterday afternoon and last night was already a better 24hours. :D

I have discovered a measle rash (20 days after MMR imm) so I suspect this is at play too, but that said he has been up and down for a while and in the past it seems things like virus's were the issue. I now think these virus's just made him worse. IYKWIM.

Thanks so much Eloise. If you can get some links when you have some time I would really appreciate having a look through :-*
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline EloysH

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Re: Probiotics info please :)
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2011, 10:50:55 am »
Good move on the Losec hun. :)  It is worth seeing if you can get by on half.  :)

 OK so I haven't compiled any info as yet as there is so much to sort through and I want to try and get the links that are explaining the most with least words KWIM?

But I did ask for practicioners for you.

This is the main website to search for Dr Walsh trained Dr's. (Dr Walsh is the leading world expert on biochemistry of the gut and using it to heal peoples guts).  His research is mainly focused on mental health, it is all linked though. Patients with mental health problems stemming from toxic guts are the most in trouble and the hardest to treat.  Food intolerance is at the milder end othe spectrum. Both my Dr's are listed on this website.  THere is only one for NZ though.

http://www.biobalance.org.au/patients/find-practitioners

Which part of NZ are you in?

I have come up with:

Dr Leila Masson (google her) in Auckland - she's a paediatrician.

There is another who is more adults, called Dr Tizzard on Auckland North Shore.

There's Dr Jo Steve in Hamilton

and another in Nelson who does Skype assessments (need to get a name)


HTH xxx