Help, totally lost! 3-month old is on a 2 hour EASY, how can I move to 3?

[Myrocia]

My 3 month-old son has been eating every two hours for almost 2 weeks now during the day. He's EBF.   He has been sleeping between 5-6 hours at night thankfully, but only after a substantial nursing/comfort sucking session of over an hour. He would maybe take a late afternoon nap every few days, but other than that, total cat napper and only in my arms.  I started EASY 3 days ago.  Don't know if I am doing it right.  He never wailed before for any reason and now he starts screaming while in my arms approaching the bed.  I'm afraid I've given him sleep anxiety.  Worse, he only naps no more than 30-35 mins on the dot.  He still slept through the night these past three nights, but I had to give him the breast for a few minutes each night.  I don't think i'm doing this right.  I feel like a disaster for having given him the breast.  I know he's not supposed to associate eating with sleeping or using my breast as a prop.  He rejects pacifiers so far.
I've been told sleep training is most effective with 4 month olds.  I know the book advocates EASY off the bat, but I am afraid I have done more damage than good -what has been gained?  Not much, still catnaps only, just in the bed, so I'm free for about 25 minutes before my anxiety sets in if he'll make it to next sleep cycle and stay napping past 30 mins.  Don't know if it is worth all his cries.  Also, I'm afraid I am messing with his night sleeping in the long run.  I feel so lost.
Please help.

[Smurfette]

((HUGS!)) Please don't stress, (I know that's easier said then done), you'll get there!

Can you post what your routine WAS before you started EASY and what it is right now?

A few questions for you so I can get a better sense of what's happening...

What personality type is he? (ie Angel,textbook, etc) If you're not sure, there is a link to the BW quiz on here somewhere that I'll try to post. It's also in the BW book.
Do you have either of the BW books? I really recommend the 2nd one-Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems-has a lot of detail and info.
How long was he going between feeds before the past two weeks? (there is a growth spurt around the 12 week mark).
Have you tried any techniques (shh/pat or W2S) to try and extend the naps? (I TOTALLY understand what you said about anxiety setting in to see if he'll make it to the next sleep cycle. Been there too and it's no fun)

He still slept through the night these past three nights, but I had to give him the breast for a few minutes each night.

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Do you mean that you nursed him to sleep? If so, please don't beat yourself up for that! We ALL do that when we need to get them to sleep. Plus you're only on day 3!!



And just to clarify some things...
sleep training and EASY are not the same thing. EASY is a routine to structure your days around so that your baby knows what to expect next. Sleep training is whatever the method you choose to help your baby learn to sleep independently. Both don't come to most people (and babies) right away so don't worry that you're doing things wrong. Your DS has been used to sleeping a certain way for 3 months and it will take some time for him to learn a new way to go to sleep.
If you really want to keep letting him nap in your arms for another month, you need to ask yourself-for what benefit? You need to do what works best for you, but from my experience that's just another month of you not having time to yourself and another month of him not learning to sleep independently.
There is always going to be some sort of crying when you start to change things, but with a little shh/pat, I'm sure things will improve!

IRT to the 30 min naps, chances are he is getting overtired...how long is his awake time (eyes open until eyes closed). You might want to shortend the next A time, especially if he only does a 30 min nap. Having said that, short naps are somewhat developmental at this age, so again, don't stress too much.

Ok, that's all for now...I'll give you a chance to respond to my questions and we'll get you sorted out! Hugs and hang in there!!

[Myrocia]

You write: Can you post what your routine WAS before you started EASY and what it is right now?
- Unfortunately, I didn't keep very good track of things before starting my EASY journal.  He fed more on a 3 hour interval, and napped very infrequently, certainly fewer times than putting him down after each of his active times now.  I decided to journal more intently just before starting EASY:

Here are two days without EASY:

4:30 am - Eat, then back in bed with me
7:30 am Eat, 4 sucks and it is over, asleep (I should have let him settle himself back down)
7:40 Sleep
8:30 am - Eat, not much interest though, feeding off on on until asleep
10:38 - Sleep in bed with me
11:08 - Active
11:50 - Eat
12:40 - Sleep
1250 - Active
1:50 - Eat
2:25 sleep
2:30 -Active (awake during car ride)
3:05 - Eat (only on one side)
3:30 - Sleep (in my arms)
4 - Eat (the other side)
4:10 Sleep (alone in bed)
6 - Eat
6:45 sleep and wake up to feed occasionally in my arms
8:30 - Active (bath at 9pm)
9:15 - Eat (nurse to sleep)
11pm - Sleep (bassinet)
4:30 am - Eat
5 am - Sleep (back in bassinet)

(next day)
8:15 am - Eat
9:30 - Sleep (alone in bed)
10 - Active
11:49 - Sleep (tried to put him down, cried and cried with me), finally dozed at 12:15
12:45 - Active
1:55 - Eat
2:30 - Active
3:40 - Sleep (in crib for first time) 3:50 awake, cried and cried, finally gave in and gave boob, slept 2 minutes more, gave up trying to put him down
3:55 Active
4:50 - Eat (very little, sleepy)
5:15 - Sleep (totally exhausted from crying jags earlier, just went to bed with him), 6 pm - woke, gave him one boob, fed a bit more, slept until 7:45pm
7:45 - Active
8:13 Eat
8:55 Active
9:20 - Eat
9:45 - Sleep
10 pm - Active
11pm - Eat
12 midnight - Sleep

(next day) First day of EASY
7:40 am - Awake
7:40 - Eat
8:05 - asleep, back to bassinet
9:40 - awake, & eats, back to sleep
10:20 - Active
11:20 - Sleep (in bed alone), awake at 11:52, diaper changes
12:15 - Eat
12:45 - Active
1:35 - Sleep (alone in bed)
2:15 -(awake, tried to put down, diaper change)
2:25 - Eats
3:10 Active
3:57 - Sleep (alone in bed)
4:23 up and Eats
5:30 - Active
6:15 - Sleep (alone in bed)
6:45 (awake, tried to put down again, no go)
7pm - Eats
7:50 - Active
8:35 Spee (alone in bed)
9:45 - awakens with a scream!, inconsolable, skipped planned bath , put him on boob right away to calm him, feeds until sleeps on boob)
10:45 - Sleep (in bassinet)

Day 2
7 am - Eats
7:17 - Sleeps at boob, back in bed with me
9 am - Eats
9:50 - back asleep on boob
10:30 - (awake, tried to soothe back to sleep, no go)
10:50 - Eats
11:35 - Active
12: 15 - Sleep (alone on bed)
12:44 - Awake, tried to calm, no go
12:50 - Eats
1:45 Active, went for a walk, hoped he go to sleep but didn't, rushed home ot put him down)
2:45 Sleep
3:05 - (awake, tried to soothe back to sleep, no go)
3:20 - Eats
4 pm - Active
4:58 - Sleeps
5:20 ( awake, tried soothing, no go)
5:30 Eats
6:20 - Active
7:07 - Sleeps
7:47 - Eats until 9:50 (falls asleep on boob, thought I'd put him down because I couldn't rouse him, but he woke up 10 minutes later)
9:50 - Active - planned to do the bath time ritual (he'd been getting a bath each night for a week before I'd start feeding him, so not the EASY order of things)
10:05 - tried to put him down after bath, but screamed worse than ever, gave in and gave him the boob for a few minutes
10:10 pm - Sleep (in bassinet for the night)

Day 3
5:45 am - Eats (very brief, maybe should have let him stir a bit longer)
6 am - Sleep (back in bed with me)
8:35 - Eats
9:28 Active
10 - Sleep
10:45 (awake, no soothing back)
10:55 - Eats
11:40 - Active
12:33 Sleeps
1:04 (awake, no soothing back to sleep works)
1:20 Eats
2 pm- Active
2:37 - Sleeps (wakes once crying from sleep, soothe back, asleep again 2:47)
3:10 -(awake, try to soothe back to sleep again no go, diaper change and hiccups delay feeding)
3:50 Eats (falls asleep at breast several times)
4:55 Active
5:40 Sleeps
6:10 (awake, no soothing at all is possible)
6:15 Eats, falls asleep 3 more times, can't continue, totally passed out)
7:08 Sleeps (in bed alone, like all day naps) BUT SLEEPS FOR 3 HOURS!
10:08 awake on the dot, dream feed him
10:50 Sleeps

Day 4 (today, Nov 22)
4:45 am - Eats
5:10 am - Sleeps, on the boob, back to bed with me
7:45 am - Eats
8:45 am - Active
9:24 - Sleeps
10:10 Eats
10:45 - Active
11:41 - Sleeps (this is the time he is actually asleep, not putting down)
12:20 (awake, but hiccups delay feeding)
12:34 - Eats
1:25 - Active
2:05 Sleeps, wakes, soothes himself to sleep around 2: 15 I think)  I'm typing as heis sleeping right now!

As to your questions:
Baby Type: He is kind of a tie between an Angel Baby and a Textbook baby.
I have the original BW book - Secrets of the Baby WHisperer, I'll get the 2nd one pronto
Before the past two weeks, he would feed more on a three hour schedule, but the sleeping and active times were totally a mess (as above in the days before I started EASY)
Extending nap techniques - I tried shh/pat, picking him up, rocking and putting back down, didn't work.  I'm afraid I don't know much about WTS - Wake to sleep.

When I say he slept through the night, I mean on the first night I nursed him to sleep, for him to feed and fall asleep totally passed out, it took 1 h 45 minutes.
Second night, I bathed him then fed him to sleep again (I know it should be reverse), only took an hour.  
Third night, he woke up screaming from a sleep that I thought might have been the last of the night, needed to feed him to calm him - never been more upset before - and he passed out
Last night, what I thought would be his second last nap, another 30 minute affair, before the long night stretch turned into a very surprising three hour nap.  EXCEPT, he didn't have any awake time again.  He fell asleep 3 times during that 6:15 feed and I couldn't rouse him so I put him down at 7:08.  He slept for 3 hours on the dot.  I picked him up and fed him, like a dream sleep I think because he was barely awake, and put him back down at 10:50.  He didn't wake again until 4:45 am this morning.

So you see, I'm not really achieving #1 good naps, #2 putting him down at night in the EASY order, he nurses to sleep instead.  No bath time ritual that leads directly to sleep.  I feel pretty lost here.

Also, he cries before I put him down for naps every time, regardless if I catch him on first yawn or a little later.  As soon as I cradle him in my arms to rock him, he cries.  I tried holding him in different ways, nothing works, he cries.  I tried lying him down and just stroking him, but he starts screaming and needs to be held.  He just hates going down for naps, or I am doing something wrong here.  So confused.

[Smurfette]

Hi there
I just skimmed over your email but I just wanted to post the following link for you in regardst to A times. I'll be back later to read more in depth.

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652

[Smurfette]

Ok, I'm back.
1st off--thanks for typing that all out-that must've taken awhile!
2nd-hang in there, it will get better! Lots and lots of us have been exactly where you are now and we've made it to the other side!!
3rd-consistency is of the upmost importance! You need to do the same things, all the time, so your DS knows what to expect. This is in regards to everything in your routine but also about trying to extend naps and sleep train-pick one method and stick it out for at least 5 days before you try something else. It took me a looooong time to realize that!   Shh/pat is what most of us use at this age and its what's recommended by Tracy.

What's going to happen with your routine is that it will be more of a EASAES or EASASE kinda thing until the naps get sorted out. Don't worry, that's normal. Lots of us have problems with naps and like I think I said before, short naps are somewhat developmental.

If you want to get him onto a 3 hour routine, you're going to have to stretch out his feedings and you're going to have to keep him awake during those feedings so that he doesn't catch up on sleep when he should be eating.
You also don't want him just 'snacking'. You want him to be hungry and alert enough to eat well to sustain him for the next 3 hours.
Feed him as soon as he's awake. It'll be hard the first couple of times until you set the cycle up, but you'll get there. It's also totally fine if you do it gradually-2.5 hrs apart and then 3hrs or something like that.
Trying sitting him up and burping him when you switch sides. Maybe undress him a bit so he's not all warm and cozy. I think Tracy suggested walking your fingers along their back.
You can also get him up and change his diaper. Whatever it takes to keep him awake. Then once he's had a good feed, proceed with your activity.

In regards to his Awake or activity time he should only be awake for about an hour and 20-30 mins, tops. And if he's short napping, I would pull that time back even further to maybe an hour and 10-15 mins. That is from the time he opens his eyes to the time he falls asleep, not the time you start getting him ready for sleep, IYKWIM.
If I'm reading your EASY right, he is sometimes up for 2 hrs. This could very well be why he's crying-he's already overtired and overstimulated and just wants to sleep, but can't.
Cutting his A time may be enough to start to lengthen his naps or make him more receptive to you assisting him to extend them.

As babies get overtired, they get more reved up and not more sleepier and naps become shorter b/c the levels of cortisol build up in their bodies. Sleep helps to lower those levels, so if he's not getting a good nap, then the levels never get fully lowered. I hope that makes sense.
There is a much more eleoquent explanation in the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Dr. Marc Weissbluth (also a good book to read-however he advises on some very un Baby Whisperer-like methods, IYKWIM.

What kind of wind down routine do you have for naps?
Make sure whatever you do that that is all included in his A time. I've made the mistake before of starting my wind down when my DD should already be in the crib, lol.

I hope some of this helps and makes sense.

[Myrocia]

First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to read, analyze and reply to my problem.  I can't thank you enough for caring.  I feel so lost, and not to get too Michael Bolton on you, but you're my anchor right now.

By the looks of things, I'm trying to accomplish two things: #1 get better, longer naps and #2 get him eating every 3, not 2, hours.

So which should I do first, cut back on my activity A time to get the naps in my sights, or should I, as you advise, extend the feedings to try to stretch it out?

I guess a bit of both at the same time would be necessary to get his Awake hours down to 1 hour and 10 - 15 mins, yes?  Trouble with extending the feeding is that if I start feeding him right away, he's still sleepy from his nap and falls asleep right away on the breast.  It is obvious he wants to be asleep, but just won't devote that time to actual napping.  And if I cut back on Activity time, does this mean trying to to start winding him down before I even see the first yawn?  I'm at a stage where i need it spelled out, I'm on a slippery slope of nerves.

Thanks so much!

[lady5280]

Myrocia, I feel for you!! I'm in a similar dilemma in that I want my LO to extend naps and also the time bt feedings. I usually start my wind-down time at first yawn, or just watch the eyes- my guy's get a little red and watery, plus he tends to look away from me- all before the yawns begin. Then it's a mad rush to get him into his sleep sack, and we rock and I sing softly in the bedroom with white noise and dim lights for about 5 minutes. Then into the crib he goes. And he cries at the sight of the crib too, just like your LO! I am bad in that I give him his paci when he gets upset, bc the shh/pat doesn't work at all for me, only makes him scream louder (I need to be more consistent with it though I'm sure). Lately he's been rejecting paci and/or chewing on it and spitting it out. But by shortening his A time, you will be lengthening his S time and time bt feeds because he won't be OT and OS and will sleep better (took me forever to really believe it, but it's true). So the two problems should work themselves out together.

Anyway, just wanted to offer a bit of advice and also a hug

[lady5280]

like I think I said before, short naps are somewhat developmental.

Sorry to barge in again, but does this mean they will get sorted out better on their own in the next few months? Bc that would make me feel a whole lot better!!!

[Smurfette]

but does this mean they will get sorted out better on their own in the next few months

Yes, around 6 months is when naps seem to get better for many ppl. And your not barging in, lol!

[Myrocia]

thanks ladies.
I thought I was making some progress today - he actually took two, count'em two 45-minute naps.  But then it all unraveled at bedtime.  I fed him at 8:05, so I knew that I needed to shorten his Awake time to 1 hour 20 minutes, so I had to get him in bed by 9:20 ish.  the feed lasted until 8:45, so my hubbie got the bath ready.  I figured get him out of the bath by 9pm and wind him down get him in bed by 9:20.  It went off the rails as soon as I got him in his sleep sack.  I started to rock him, and the crying started.  OK fine, normal, I rocked him and rocked him waiting for him to calm down long enough to lay him in the bassinet.  Happened about 5 times, it was now 9:35, and there was no sign of being sleeping.  He was all smiles all of a sudden.  My husband and I caved, I gave him the breast.  I thought he'd suck a bit to soothe himself, but it wound up being a feed until 10 pm.

I feel utterly defeated.

[Smurfette]

not to get too Michael Bolton on you, but you're my anchor right now.

Oh, that's good! Lol. I can so relate, like I've said, I've been right where you are a million times and other lovely ladies on here have helped me out.

I guess a bit of both at the same time would be necessary to get his Awake hours down to 1 hour and 10 - 15 mins, yes?

Yeah. If you can, aim to try to tackle both, that might be your best bet.

if I start feeding him right away, he's still sleepy from his nap and falls asleep right away on the breast

Have you tried getting him up, changing him, undressing him a bit and then changing him and burping him again in between nursing? I used to have to sponge bath my DD inbetween to keep her awake. Maybe something like that would work. It will just be for the first little bit as you reverse the cycle.

And if I cut back on Activity time, does this mean trying to to start winding him down before I even see the first yawn?

Yes. It may be that you have one of those babies that by time they yawn, they're already overtired. Perhaps keep a close eye on him as you approach nap time to see what he does. In the other BW book she mentions that babies might fuss,fidget,make involuntary movements,some open their eyes wide, some make creaking or squeaking noises, turn away from objects (my DD did this) or toys, stare into space. I've also heard that they may become calmer or quieter, decreased activity and/or disinterested in surroundings and/ or facial grimaces.

What kind of wind down routine do you have before naps? There may be a chance that maybe his sleey signal *is* yawning but by the time he's gone through the wind down and actually asleep, it's too late.

Hope that helps! Keep me updated!

[lady5280]

Maybe he's cluster feeding?

My LO seems to be moving his bedtime back these past few days. Normally he goes to bed at 6-7, but last night he was fussy until 9:45, and tonight he woke up at 8 after an hour nap. We're winding him down right now and hope to get him to sleep by 9 that way he and I can both get a long stretch. Fingers crossed he doesn't wig out like last night!!!

[Smurfette]

Hugs hun! It's ok! You got 2-45 min naps...focus on the positive!!!!! Woo hoo! Go you!

Is there a chance he was actually hungry? It seems like he was if he took a full feed so close together.

I started to rock him, and the crying started

Is this something you do regularly at bed time? Just becareful that it doesn't become a prop and that he needs it to fall asleep, IYKWIM.

I feel utterly defeated

It's ok! It's ok! Oh, I so understand those feelings, but please try to remember you just nursed your son to sleep. You didn't beat him or neglect him. You provided him food and comfort. Have a good cry or a drink or whatever makes you feel better and then move on to tomorrow-it's another day!

Something that might also help is to pull bedtime up closer to 7 or so. You want to aim for a 12 hr day....unless he's waking up at 9 am? What time would you say his day starts? Generally,babies do much better with earlier bedtimes rather than later.
Even now, my 14 month DD regularly goes to bed at 6:30/6:45pm b/c she wakes around 6:30.

Big hugs!

[Myrocia]

It just got worse!  He woke up at 10:12 pm, and I had to nurse him more until 10:45pm.  I hope to God he stays asleep, because if he doesn't I think I've broken his night stretch routine.

I think I'm not putting him down for naps/sleeps right then.  This is what I do, please correct:  To wind down, I talk very softly and carry him up the stairs,  I walk him up and down the hall a bit held up to my chest like in a burp position while singing some kind of nonsense.  I approach the bed (I gave up on crib because of the wailing)   and lay him down.  I start patting him and "she shh shsh" ing.  He doesn't stay calm for long and starts crying.  I pick him up and rock him in my arms like a cradle until he calms down and his eyes kinda slip back into his head.  I lay him down again, and shsh shsh and pat his head, he cries anyways.  I pick him up and rock him again.  He calms, I lay him down, his eyes are still open and I get out of eye sight.  I wait.  If he cries, I come back.   He definitely needs the rocking.  I can't get past the crying without it.

I'm not doing this right, am I?

[Myrocia]

Oh lord.  I just bought and read the 2nd Baby Whisperer book about sleep and I see that I am doing the sush pat, pick up/put down all wrong.  In fact it seems I've done it all wrong from the start.
What do I do now?  I've put my LO through 4 days of crying at every nap and almost every night sleep.  I am beyond stressed.  Should I give up for a few days and start fresh then, or correct and keep going.
I tried the correct vertical hold and back pat/shush method.  He hates that, obviously.  I gave him the breast in desperation.  I fear that no matter what I do, the damage is done.