Author Topic: probiotics  (Read 8653 times)

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Offline bjutka1

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probiotics
« on: December 04, 2011, 14:45:13 pm »
I'm currently using Biogaia probiotics for my allergic baby Julia(11 months old.)

I have been reading Gut and Psychology Syndrome book where the author suggests that a good probiotics is one that contains as many different species of beneficial bacteria as possible.

Now the one I'm using says:

"The drops contain Lactobacillus reuteri (L. reuteri) Protectis suspended in oil. Just five drops a day provides the recommended daily dose of 100 million active health-promoting L. reuteri Protectis bacteria, ready to fight off harmful bacteria and create a healthy balance in the alimentary tract."

So I think it's only one type -right?

Anyone using some other type of probiotic that they think works really well and has more types of bacteria in them? Any other supplements that you found useful?

Any ideas would be more than welcome...
Jutka - lucky mother to 2 gorgeous babies
Peter 25 Oct 2009 and Julia 28 Dec 2010
Married to a loving and proud husband on 25 Aug 2007

Offline Buntybear

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Re: probiotics
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2011, 22:05:34 pm »
Bumping for you as I am not sure  ;)

Offline bjutka1

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Re: probiotics
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2011, 20:34:11 pm »
Don't worry, I'm actually gonna see a really good biomed dr on Friday - he will most likely be able to advise on this.

Thanks,

Judit
Jutka - lucky mother to 2 gorgeous babies
Peter 25 Oct 2009 and Julia 28 Dec 2010
Married to a loving and proud husband on 25 Aug 2007

tigerlilly905

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Re: probiotics
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2011, 02:09:33 am »
Sweets, I hope you were able to get some answers yesterday. How did it go?

We are actually following the GAPS diet here and I would be happy to help if I can.

We found the Biogaia probiotic to be too weak, tbh, and I believe it only has one strain of probiotic with only 100 million CFUs.  We use Klaire Labs infant probiotic, which you can order through Amazon. It has 10 billion CFUs (so it is quite potent) and has multiple strains which are compatible with baby/toddler digestive tract.  Here's a link for you   http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001PYXMV4/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

Also, have you found the GAPS FB page?  If you are on Facebook just type gut and psychology syndrome in the search and it will come up. There is lots of support and helpful information there as well. Please feel free to PM me at anytime! xo :-*  We are still on this journey, but I can say from experience that this diet truly is healing! You're on the right track!

tigerlilly905

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Re: probiotics
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2011, 02:44:37 am »
I just started a GAPS thread on here, hopefully it can help as well xo http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=222014.0

Offline bjutka1

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Re: probiotics
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2011, 14:13:21 pm »
Hi Tigerlilly

Thanks for the message. Great to get some support.

The appointment on Friday went well, though if I'm completely honest, I thought it could have gone better. The doctor suspects that Julia has gut dysbiosis - an imbalance of good and bad bacteria in her gut.. He suggested doing the comprehensive digestive stool analysis and a urine microbial metabolites test and to check for zink, copper etc. In the meantime, he wants to start her on some supplements which he will tweak once we get the test results back. This is the positive part.

I think he realised that I already knew quite a lot about all this and he didn't explain everything in detail.

He suggested giving her digestive enzymes, probiotic and a thing called Lepicol that is meant to help her with constipation  - (we have big problems with this!). This is the part where I'm a bit disappointed about. Lepicol has maltrodextrin in it which, as far as I know, is  corn - I told him she couldn't have corn. The probiotic he sold us has traces of milk and soya in it - again, he knows she can't have that. I only noticed these things when we got home. Will have to ring him tomorrow or send him an email.

Since then, I emailed Dr Cambpell-Mcbride for the second time to ask for some help and this is her answer:


"Dear Mrs McNab,
It is up to you what probiotic to use, the one I'm suggesting, Bio-Kult is strong.
I would not use Lepicol as it will feed pathogens just as well as good bacteria.
In order to heal your daughter's gut wall you have to remove all starch, so no grains.
Please, read my book and http://www.gaps.me

Best wishes,
Dr Campbell-McBride"

Now, the doctor was saying the same thing - any carbohydrate will just feed her bad bacteria.

For a while, I have been trying to follow the Failsafe diet as I thought Julia might be chemical sensitive - since, then I'm not sure about this as she is able to tolerate the likes of plums and peaches - both high in salysalites.  Also, this diet seems to be nearly at the opposite spectrum as there are so many grains and white potato in the Failsafe diet. And now the Gaps one tells me to avoid all these if I want her gut to heal.

My problem is that Julia doesn't seem to be showing a pattern - various types of meat also gave her a sore tummy- and they should be okay according to this diet.

So I'm really at a loss.

Will check and compare this probiotics with Bio Kult - the one Dr Cambpell -McBride suggested.

I just think it will be very difficult for us to follow her diet as she uses so much dairy and eggs- both of which Julia is allergic to... She is also only tolerating chicken - all other meat seem to give her a sore tummy and I haven't even tried fish. Vegetables are a hit and miss - she tolerates some but most give her bad wind...

I wish I had the answers... Thanks for helping me, I really appreciate it.

Jutka
Jutka - lucky mother to 2 gorgeous babies
Peter 25 Oct 2009 and Julia 28 Dec 2010
Married to a loving and proud husband on 25 Aug 2007

tigerlilly905

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Re: probiotics
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 01:37:40 am »
((hugs)) I know, it's such a tricky thing isn't it?  

The appointment on Friday went well, though if I'm completely honest, I thought it could have gone better. The doctor suspects that Julia has gut dysbiosis - an imbalance of good and bad bacteria in her gut.. He suggested doing the comprehensive digestive stool analysis and a urine microbial metabolites test and to check for zink, copper etc. In the meantime, he wants to start her on some supplements which he will tweak once we get the test results back. This is the positive part.

I agree, this seems like a positive start for sure. He does seem to be putting you on a good track.

I will say this - I started out on this journey just doing a regular ED (so no common allergens) which wasn't successful - then I went to Failsafe (RPAH) and no common allergens. I was litterally down to eating next to nothing and Ds2 was still reacting to things like Quinoa (which is a gluten free, low sal grain) Thats when I found GAPS and it completely made sense. We started a dairy free version of GAPS right away (since I knew for certain dairy was a trigger) and within a few days Ds2 was doing better then he had in months.  

With GAPS, you are to exclude as many known allergens/sensitivities at first even if they are on the "allowed" foods list and it's not until the gut heals that you have a chance to slowly start to reintroduce them. So for us, things like dairy and peanuts are out - even though they are GAPS legal I know they bother Ds2, so I don't eat them.  

Are you doing intro with her?  Intro can take a while to pass through the steps.  

For the meats - what type of meat are you consuming?  Is it Organic? If it's not organic, it's important to note that any toxins/pesticides/herbicides ect that the animal is exposed to and usually consuming in their feed goes into their tissues and is easily stored in their fat.  So meats (and most everything else on this diet) should be consumed organic.  Do you know the farmer you are getting your meat from to ask what they feed their animals?  Soy and Corn are common in animal feed, so if your DD is particularily sensitive to say soy or corn (even if it is organic feed), if the cow/chicken/pig ect is eating those things, traces can usually still be found in their meat. So if she's showing reactions to some meats, that can possibly account for what she's experiencing. Same goes for eggs.  She might not actually have a true egg allergy, but if the chickens are being fed soy/corn ect, that can be present in their eggs, kwim?

Do you do the food sensitivity test as outlined in the book with her in before introducing new foods?

Are you juicing?? We have found juicing to be key.  If vegetables are giving her bad gas it very well could be the fibre.  If you are juicing for her, she will still get all of the nutrients/enzymes from the fruit/veggies without the fibre. Again, fibre can aggrivate an already inflammed gut.

I don't know if you mentioned, are you still nursing?  Of course, it's recommended to nurse as long as possible to allow for optimal healing.

I'm sure there's more I wanted to say but I'm really getting away from the original topic of this thread. Why don't you come and join us on the GAPS support thread I started here? There's other ladies on BW who are also following GAPS (many have also tried Failsafe as well) and hopefully we can all help eachother out.

Also, if you pop over to that thread, can you maybe post the link you used to contact Dr Campbell Mcbride?  I know of at least one BW Mama on here who would probably want to email her as well.

About the bio-kult, I've read about it actually. If that's what Dr. Campbell McBride suggests then I would definitely look into it. My only concern with it was that I believe it's an adult probiotic.  I know that infants/toddlers can only tolerate certain strains of probiotic cultures until their gut matures.  Did you tell her you were treating an 11 month old?

If it helps, our ND who I've only recently been in contact with, suggests we hold off on solids until Ds2 is at least 12 months or older and only exclusively breastfeed to allow for the best chance to heal.  I've been in contact with other Mamas on the FB gaps page who also say to EBF for 1yr ++ (one mother suggested no solids until closer to 2!)   So if Julia is having so much trouble, perhaps you could take a big step back on the solids.  Nursing as much as possible, juicing vegetables and homemade bone broth.  All liquids so it would be much gentler on her gut.  And then after a few weeks/months try to slowing go into Intro/full gaps.  

I know there's many people who follow it dairy/egg free.

Anyways, do join us on the thread here:    http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=222014.0  Just so we can keep this thread only for probiotics :)

Sending you lots of hugs! You're doing amazing!!! :-*

« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 01:51:23 am by tigerlilly905 »

tigerlilly905

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Re: probiotics
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 02:10:10 am »
oh, I forgot to mention, about the plums/peaches reaction, that could purely be because of the sugars.  Fruits are high in fructose, which bad bacteria will love.  Even though fruits are allowed on gaps, remember they are allowed in the later stages, and even then 80% of the patients diet is to be from meats/fats/veggies and savoury foods.  Fruits are to be saved as a snack between meals and only in moderation.  I would eliminate all fruits from her diet (apart from juicing small amounts of fruit to make the therapeutic vegetables tolerable) from now and go back to "Intro" if possible.

Also, if you are still nursing, remember whatever you are eating will go into your milk, so you need to be following GAPS as well.  I have been following gaps for 4+ months to effect what Ds2 gets through my breastmilk.

Ok, enough for now :P See you on the other thread! xo :-*

Offline bjutka1

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Re: probiotics
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2011, 22:23:26 pm »
Thanks, Tigerlilly - lots of good suggestions. I posted on the support tread for GAPs diet with lots of questions.

One last question for the probiotic: the link you sent me seems to be an infant formula - are you sure we don't need the powder? What's the exact name?

Also, does it contain maltrodextrin? Julia can't tolerate that.

Thanks!
Jutka - lucky mother to 2 gorgeous babies
Peter 25 Oct 2009 and Julia 28 Dec 2010
Married to a loving and proud husband on 25 Aug 2007

tigerlilly905

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Re: probiotics
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2011, 01:54:52 am »
 So the label can seem deceptive and is kinda confusing. It probably should just read Infant Probiotic, but they call it an infant formula of probiotics, kwim?  It is a powder probiotic. You just measure it with a teaspoon. The exact name is Klaire Labs Ther-biotic Infant Formula Probiotic. The only additional ingredient is Inulin (derrived from Chicory root). We haven't had any adverse reactions with it. Here's Klaire Labs actual website with the exact product description as well as probably most of the information you will need: http://www.klaire.com/prod/proddetail.asp?id=K-TIF  If anything isn't answered in that link, I would send them an email. I emailed to be sure their product was non-GMO (which it is :) ) Their customer service got back to me within 24 hrs.

The link I posted for you above is the amazon link with the companies that sell the Klaire Labs Infant probiotic. If you scroll down the list you will see the companies that ship internationally. I ordered mine from Vitamin Partners (I think they are the 6th on down on the link). They shipped quickly for me (mind you I'm in Canada), but I was very happy with the company.

We started with 1/8 tsp per day the first week then increased the dose from there as Ds2 became used to it.  Sometimes probiotics can seem to make symptoms worse when you first introduce them, so go slow.  Usually the good bacteria are getting rid of a lot of the bad stuff in babys' system and causing a detox reaction.  We had a few days of "die off" (detox) when we first introduced the probiotic to Ds2, but it settled down after a couple of days.

I haven't had much computer time today so I might not be able to reply to everything on the gaps support page, but know I'm thinking of you and sending healing vibes to little Julia! :-*
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 02:00:09 am by tigerlilly905 »

Offline bjutka1

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Re: probiotics
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 10:19:01 am »
Found two distributors in Europe so trying to get the product a bit quicker.

What's your opinion on digestive enzymes? That's what the biomed dr wants to put her onfirst of all and only then probiotcs.

If you get a chance, would you mind having a look at mys questions in the Support thread?

I think you're right and we defo need to take a step back from solids. Just not sure, how extremely we need to go back. She loves her solids and I do think she needs the opportunity to chew. But her gut is a mess and really needs healed. My other concern is that I'm not sure she will accept the meat stock and veg juices on their own just as liquid.

How do you give it to your DS (bottle,beaker, spoon)? Does he accept it okay? What age is he?

My other concern is that we alienate ourselvers from mainstream medicine who will never agree to such a feeding regime  and "will wash their hands." I suppose I'm just really scared what if it doesn't work. But I don't know what else we have left to try.
Jutka - lucky mother to 2 gorgeous babies
Peter 25 Oct 2009 and Julia 28 Dec 2010
Married to a loving and proud husband on 25 Aug 2007

Offline Mashi

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Re: probiotics
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 10:48:06 am »
My DS has been on a probiotic called Mutaflor.  It is only one strain of bacteria but it has been proven several times to be one of the most effective strains available in the world. 

The gross history of this probiotic - during the first world war, conditions in trenches were pretty bad and entire troops and battalions were being wiped out from bacterial infections and mainly by diarrhea.  One German soldier who managed to stay totally healthy despite everyone around him being seriously ill with these gastro ailments became a study for scientists and they found in his faeces he had bacteria that not a single one of the sick (or dead) soldiers had. They isolated the bacteria and studied it and it turned out to be 'good' bacteria...they cultured it and grew it and that strain is now Mutaflor.  Gross eh?!!  Every time I give tit to DS it sort of makes me puke a bit! LOL!  But it works and it is awesome!! It is used for both diarrhea and constiption, IBS, Crohns, digestive disorders and so on.

It has just recently become available in Canada and a bit of digging online and there are places you can order it to be shipped to the UK (so I assume N. Ire as well) but many of those places are online German pharmacies.  I did as good of a heck as I can and although maltodextrin is in the capsules it does not seem to be in the suspension, and the suspension is the one for babies and toddlers.  They do have a facebook page and you can send them questions (or email them through their canadian or american website as well).

Their German website is not very informative but here it is -
http://www.mutaflor.de/cms/produkt/mutaflor-suspension

HTH!!

Offline bjutka1

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Re: probiotics
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2011, 22:49:45 pm »
Thanks for all the info. I ordered Klair Labs so just waiting for it to arrive. Might take 2-3 weeks though...
Jutka - lucky mother to 2 gorgeous babies
Peter 25 Oct 2009 and Julia 28 Dec 2010
Married to a loving and proud husband on 25 Aug 2007

tigerlilly905

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Re: probiotics
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2011, 02:02:37 am »
What's your opinion on digestive enzymes? That's what the biomed dr wants to put her onfirst of all and only then probiotcs.

I know we need to get on enzymes as well... although I'm not exactly sure the proper course of action with a baby so young - we see our Naturopath next wednesday and plan on discussing enzymes, so I will be sure to let you know what I find out.

If you get a chance, would you mind having a look at mys questions in the Support thread?

Of course! :-*  I apologize I haven't responded to them sooner, we've had a busy few days around our house. I have read what you wrote, but just didn't have time to reply. Will head over to that thread once I'm done here :)

How do you give it to your DS (bottle,beaker, spoon)? Does he accept it okay? What age is he?

Ds2 is 8 months. I've been giving him the probiotics for at least the past 4 months. I mix them in a small cup and then give them to him with a small medicine dispenser.  He won't take a bottle.  You can easily mix the probiotics in a bottle.  Or you could mix them with bone broth even and spoon feed.

My other concern is that we alienate ourselvers from mainstream medicine who will never agree to such a feeding regime  and "will wash their hands." I suppose I'm just really scared what if it doesn't work. But I don't know what else we have left to try.

I completely understand. We stopped going to our regular Dr. after Ds2's 2 month check up. I had tried to approach the topic of his digestive issues/mucous poops/intolerences ect ect ect and the Dr was all too quick to suggest Formula/reflux meds/laxitives without exploring any other options. I was appauled to be honest.  So we haven't brought Ds2 back to her since.  I've since been to 3 ND's (unfortunately none of them were very helpful) BUT it led me on my own research in finding the GAPS diet, and, as I said, I can't believe how much it's helped our family. I know it's a long journey, but I'm optimistic we're on the right path.  It does sound to me like your Biomed Dr is also on the right track.  I know, I'm full of doubt when we hit bumps in the road, but then I see progess and it really keep me motivated to continue.

I hope the probiotics make their way to you soon. Glad you found a company that can ship to you!

I'll pop over to the gaps thread now! xox