10,5 months old waking at night and standing up crying in the crib

[brazylia]

Hi!

That's good to hear that your dd is sleeping better. My ds is taking better naps now after I introduced reading before naps (usually he sleeps 1.10-1.20) and shortened his A time. He falls asleep on my lap most of the times to be honest, sometimes I don't even notice when I'm reading, but I can't say I regret that, as that constant standing up and screaming before naps was unberable. I think when he gets a bit older we will get to the point when he lies down and I read to him.
As for night wakings... well, they don't occur regulary, he sleeps a couple of days from 7.30pm - 7 am and then some nights he wakes screaming and 1-2h of PD leave me and dh completely derailed. Sometimes I think those parents who get up every night are more used to it and can function better than these "occasional" ones like us. 
I'll observe him more but I suspect he wakes due to bad gas if he ate green peas or beans, but can it be 12h after eating them for lunch?
Take care and let me know how your dd naps and nights are? Still EW?

[brazylia]

I need help again...
The NW are getting worse and worse. And night awake time is getting longer (3h last night!)
DS sleeps rather OK during the day ( two 1-1.20h naps) - but falls asleep on my lap while I'm reading... (probably not the best option, but I couldn't stand his constant pulling up - PD didn't work).
Bedtime - asleep by 7.30pm after BF.
He sleeps OK for half a night and wakes crying around 1-2 am (as again PD didn't work... we started hugging him and he usually went back to sleep OK, but I'm afraid it became a prop for him? He can't go back to sleep on his own?) Sometimes he wakes again around 4-4.30 am or sleeps till 7am.

Could it really be that he can't fall asleep by himself??? (but again he used to do NW before standing up and somehow could fall asleep again alone...)
Please give me your thoughts as I'm clueless...

[Bex09]

Hi again hun, sorry things have got bad for you again. I think that you are probably right and the holding to sleep has become a prop that DS needs to fall asleep, when he wakes in the night he needs that again to resettle yk? The good news is that if he was an independent sleeper in the past it should come back easier than initial sleep training.

For some babies PD doesn't work, it winds them up more. My DD was like that and she would get sooooo angry when we PD. So we used GW, have a look at this link to see what you think. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0 Ignore the WI/WO part as I think that would be too much for your DS at his age.

GW is often used more with toddlers, but I think it would work just fine in your situation. We used this with my DD at 14 months as no other sleep training had ever worked with her and she had always been cuddled to sleep (we had reflux issues though too!). It worked brilliantly for us, what do you think?

[charmie]

I think it's still the routine that is causing the OT, NWs and EWs.  If you want to share your routine again maybe we can tweak some more?  What rings an alrm bell for me is the fact that he zonks out in the pushchair at around 1 or 1.30.  So I'm thinking he probably needs an ealrier pm nap.  At this age they're going through the 2-1 nap transition.  There isn't enough time in the day for 2 long naps, so you try for 1 short and 1 long nap.  Some babies prefer short am/long pm, and others vice versa.  To give you an example, right now my ds2 is doing;

WU 7ish
Nap 1 10.45-11.30/12 (most of the time I have to wake him up)
Nap 2 13.45-4/4.30 (I would wake him up if still asleep by 4.30)
BT 7/7.30

The earlier pm nap allows for a long enough A time before BT.

Eventually the am nap will go, and the pm nap will start earlier.

HTH

[Elizabeth410]

Hello Brazylia,

Sorry things are not going well with your LO

All the above advice is good in my opinion.

The only thing I might add is that if he's falling asleep in your lap during the book reading, I would try to put him to bed earlier, because I think that babies that fall asleep on their own tend to sleep better, and need less props to get back to sleep, etc. I imagine that him falling asleep that way must have been a nice break for you though, after going through all that PD!!

Naptimes earlier, and bedtime earlier : this is what worked for us!
When she wakes at night she is awake less long now. (lucky, I know!)
We keep the activities to a minimum as of 5 pm. We don't let her get even a glimpse of the tv if someone is watching it, and we keep her 5 year old brother from jumping and being his usual energy bomb around her And as hard as this one is, we don't make her laugh after 5pm. We've noticed a BIG difference when there's a 2 hour 'calm' period before bed.

As my husband keeps repeating to me, 'good sleep begets good sleep', so I would try to work on his naps and bedtime hour.

Good luck and keep us posted! xx

[brazylia]

Hi girls!
Thanks so much for your ideas! I guess I have had it all in the back of my mind but it's so hard to put it in practice! Especially if my family don't understand it at all and claims I'm making a rocket science out of ot... DH is somewhere in the middle, he supports me, but has his theories as well...
Anyway, our easy is usually like this these days:
7ish wake up and BF
8ish breakfast and A (he's sometimes sleepy already after breakfast in his highchair...)
10-10.30 nap (1-1.10h, but 30min still happen)
12ish lunch and usually a walk
3ish nap (somewhere between 1h - 1.20h) BF after wake-up
some snack and a short walk if not earlier
5.30-6 supper (sometimes he's really hungry quite early)
6.45-7 bath
7.15-7.45 asleep (he loves playing in water, so wouldn't get out if I let him and sometimes he gets worked up splashing etc..... but how to cut it out if he really enjoys it???)

I decided to stop with hugging at night (not so much before day naps yet but I guess that will have to follow too...) and did PD last night (was really discouraged at first but surprisingly he did calmed down and fell asleep after 8-10 PD at first and after 2-3 the second time he woke up). But even if he doesn't stand up he's lying awake for quite some time and as soon as I stir or make a noise (as I'm trying GW) he sits up (but that's some progress I guess). I noticed too for the first time ever that he lay down by himself after sitting up - so I think he will be able to do it on his own with time?
So  charmie: do you advise, I put him for his first nap before 10 (I will try putting him down awake after reading, we'll see how it goes, or should I set the nights straight first?) and around 2pm for his second nap?
But what if he wakes up after 30min from first nap?
Or what if second nap is 30min too? (there'll be a long gap before bedtime...) and also the meal times will be disrupted...

and Bex: how did you do GW with your DD? Didn't she sit up/stand up? - I guess my DS will immediately sit up and stand up so there'll be no time to even move away from the cot... or should I move away and wait a bit before putting him down?
Elizabeth: I say the exact same words to my DH that your DH does! And I think I will try the "after 5pm calm period" too.

Thanks a lot! It's such a help really!

[Elizabeth410]

Here's what I would try, and I have only my own experience to base this on, so I'm no expert. But here goes:

I've noticed that when Victoria has a later afternoon nap (3pm or later), it takes her a long time to get to sleep at night. Also, she seems to do well with a 2.5 hour A time before her first nap in the morning. She only naps for 30 minutes, which is perfect, because then she can have an earlier afternoon nap,  around 1:30 or 2. Lately, this schedule seems to be working well for us. Which is why I'm recommending it

Ok so, I would do the morning nap around 9:30 and if he wakes up after 30 minutes, I would get him up. Then he could have an earlier afternoon nap, around 1 or 2. This would cut down on his daytime sleep and his pm nap wouldn't be so close to bedtime, so it may help him get to sleep faster at night.

Just my two cents.

Btw, Victoria's still waking up at night, anywhere from 2 to 4 times. We still have to go lie her down, but now most of the time she goes back to sleep within 5 to 10 minutes. So it seems to be getting better.

Have a great day everyone! xx

[Bex09]

Hi there, I do agree that if your DS is sleepy after breakfast then he probably is a bit OT ATM, especially if he takes 30 min naps at times. So a slightly earlier am nap may work there.

I would not get him up if he wakes early from naps though, but try to resettle if you can. A short nap for an already OT LO will just make the OT worse. If you can't extend then the next A time needs to be much shorter than normal. I do agree with PP about making sure there is enough A time to BT though. This was always an issue for us too, my DD prefers a longer A time to bed than any other.

As for the GW... we started by putting DD down in the cot and keeping a hand on her, rubbing her back, etc (whatever works to settle your DS) until she fell asleep. She did cry at first but because I was there with her I knew she was fine. We did this for two days/nights, then I just sat by the cot and only put my hand on her if she really cried and took it off when she calmed. The next step was to sit by the cot but not to touch DD at all and just calm with my voice, shushing, etc. This was the worst part for us and we did have about 40 mins of on and off crying, fussing, etc. If it got too much I would put a hand on her (couldn't help myself I am a softy!) After a couple of nights and getting to the point where DD was calm enough for me to not be touching her anymore, I just moved further away every night until I was out of the door. HTHs.

[brazylia]

Hi there!

just wanted to tell you how things have been lately and ask you a few things...
well, since I stared with the PD for the NW he responds to it rather well I'd say... a few PD or sometiems just 1 is enough for him not to attempt at pulling up, he lays for some time and goes back to sleep or falls asleep immediately. Only 1-2 NWs and on Wednesday night he didn't even woke up once!
Last night was a disaster because DH tried PD for 2h (apparently he lay awake or merely asleep and woke every time DH tried to leave the room or was half down the stairs - there's a creaky one), then I interveaned and DS was asleep in 20min... and slept till 6.45.
As for the naps, I don't know if he isn't heading towards 1 nap already? Sometimes he has 2 nice naps of 1-1.10h but sometimes only 30 min after PD to sleep... I put him down earlier, read to him and try to put him down while he's still awake but never know what the result would be.
Perhaps I will try for another 1-2 weeks to stick to the present routine to see what happens and then try some changes?
Maybe earlier morning nap of 30min and earlier pm (1-1.30pm) nap with intention of being longer?
Sometimes I feel so lost with all EASY thing... and doubt in everything...
I found some nice advice on 2-1 transition here some time ago but can't seem to return to it again... could you give me some links?
And elizabeth, isn't your DD having the 2-1 transition with her morning nap so short and early pm nap?

Thanks a lot!!!

[Bex09]

Hi hun, here is a great link that I think you will find helpful... http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163278.0 It covers all kinds about the 2:1 and also links to the support threads too.

You may well be right that your DD is starting the transition, my DD started at 9 months but it took us 3 months of tweaking and extending A times until she was consistently on one nap at 12 mo.

Glad the PD is working so well, sounds like you have made some great progress so far.

[Elizabeth410]

Hello Brazylia,

Your week sounds like ours! We also had two good nights this week (with no wake ups), but the next day she had a 2 hour awake period, from 4 to 6 am. Sigh. And when she wakes up, we do PD and shhh, and when we think she's sleeping and leave the room, she immediately lifts her head and we start all over again! They're pretty sneaky our LOs 

Victoria is in daycare several days per week, and she doesn't always have a morning nap when she is there. So when she skips her morning nap, her afternoon nap is a lot longer, 2 to 2.5 hours long. In this case, she has the afternoon nap very early, around 1pm. So yes, to answer your question, I think she could drop the morning nap anytime now. But at home, we see her tired cues in the morning (including fussiness, rubbing her eyes and taking deep breaths), which they might not see at daycare. Which is why we still put her to bed after her 2.5 A time in the morning.

The key to EASY is consistency and paying attention to cues/signs. Five years ago, our son fit right in with every EASY schedule Tracy proposed in 'The baby whisperer solves all your problems'. But our daughter is a bit different and we need to pay closer attention to everything surrounding her naps. We're still trying to figure it out, but without Tracy's advice we'd be completely lost!

Keep us posted! xx

[charmie]

Hello brazylia!  Sorry I have never been back to reply, but since I posted that my lo went off his routine and I'm still trying to find something that works again.  Nw's, ew's , what have you...  I thought it was due to teething but the tooth came out and the trouble continues.

Anyway, how's it going?

[brazylia]

Hi!
How are you and your LOs?

We are a bit better I think - 3-4 NW-free nights a week it's a huge progress! If DS wakes, I am able to calm him down within 30min or so (PD, whispering, sometimes holding a bit), unfortunatelly DH not so much... I'm aiming for GW all the time as well.

Naps are so-so though. I tried putting him down earlier for the 1st nap and so around 1-2pm for the 2nd but it may not be the option for him. Yesterday, his first A time was 4,5h after which he really started showing tired signs and fell asleep immediately I put him down (no book or holding in my arms) and slept 1,5h with short awakening and PD. Woke up at midday and then had a short 30min nap around 3pm. Seemed really OK till bedtime, so maybe this is the routine for him? I will stick to it now.
He can now stand on his own, stand up from the floor sometimes too, so do you think he will begin walking soon ?

Another thing is that he wakes earlier now - 5.30-6 (and I know a habit lurks there - DH brings him to our bed for BF...) and I decided to fight this as well (started today, just put him down and he went back to sleep after 20min) but do you suggest I should wake him up at 7am sharp or wait for him to wake up?
If he woke up at 7, then his first nap will be around 11.30 (hopefully till at least 1pm) and perhaps that will do till earlier bedtime or just a short 20-30min around 4pm... I'm really excited to see what happens
It's 7.05 am and DS just woke up so wish me luck today!
Take care!

[charmie]

That sounds great !

My lo is 10mo old.  He's waking up at 5am and driving me crazy.  I just posted on GS.

You can never tell how long it takes them to reach milestones, but it sure sounds like he's on the fast track:)

You're doing a great job xxx

[Bex09]

What a great update. Sounds like you are really going in the right direction.