EASY hurting milk supply?

[kingme37]

Hi all,

I'm new to the boards, so thanks for taking the time to read this.  My EBF ds is 5 months old, and I've been implementing EASY for the past 4-6 weeks.  The routine seems to work and my ds is usually a very happy, rested, and alert baby, but I discovered that his weight gain has practically come to a halt.  In the past month he only gained 5 ounces, and now I'm worried that my milk supply is suffering as a result of the decrease in feeds (we were feeding "on-demand" every 2-3 hours until about 3 1/2 months).  I also tried limiting him to one feed at night per Tracy's advice using PU/PD, but now that I'm aware of the weight gain issue I'm going back to two.

So, I guess now I'm questioning a lot of Tracy's advice regarding breastfeeding, especially since the lactation consultant I talked to was adamant that it is normal for a baby to still need at least 6-7 feeds in 24 hours at this age.  I've tried focusing on getting more into him during the day, with longer feedings and cluster feeding, but it doesn't seem to make a difference...he still eats a lot at those two night feedings if given the opportunity.

I'm going to try to increase my milk supply (pumping after nursing, fenugreek, switching sides frequently during nursing sessions), but I just wanted to see if anybody had any feedback about needing more feedings per 24 hours than Tracy recommends.

(I guess I should also note that overall my ds is a healthy weight -- about 18 lbs at 5 months -- and that he usually seems very content after feeds).

[Erin M]

Hi and welcome!

Are you doing a dream feed or just feeding when he wakes in the night?  2 feeds at night would be totally ok at 5 months - we're just only dropping one of our nfs here at 8 months.  If you feel like he needs the calories, definitely feed him!  There are other reasons for slowing weight gain at this age -- if you baby is staying up more and burning more calories he might not gain as rapidly as he was before.  The fact that he's happy and content is a good sign.  Is he wetting enough diapers during the day?

At 5 months, bf babies may not make the 4 hour mark in feeding, which is ok. 

So, yes more than 5 feeds per 24 hours may certainly be necessary!  There has been a lot of bfing research in the past 7 or so years since Tracy died and we like to think that she may have revised some of her ideas given the opportunity.  But at the same time, baby whispering is all about listening to your baby, so if he seems hungry don't get hung up on the perfect EASY and definitely feed him. 

[kingme37]

Thanks for your feedback! 

I've not had success with the dreamfeed as he usually wakes up on his own around 10 and isn't hungry then.  On average he wakes up 3-4 times at night, but I only feed him if it has been 3-4 hours since the last feeding because otherwise he barely eats and just tries to nurse to sleep.  Note that we've only been using PU/PD for about a week, so I'm hoping the extra wakings will start to fade away once he becomes more accustomed to it.  Thanks for the reassurance that 2 feeds are fine...I just got the impression from the books that a healthy 4 month old baby SHOULD be going 5-6 hours between feeds at night, which he obviously doesn't. 

Thanks again!

Melanie

[becj86]

That 5-6 hours is not supposed to be all night... its a guide as to what the longest stretch might be, so bedtime feed at 7, feed at 12 or 1, then 3-4hrly after that

Also, are you cluster feeding in the afternoon/evening before bed? That's what got us further through the night as DS won't take a DF. I still do this at nearly 9months and it works really well for us.

[kingme37]

Ah, ok.  I just wish he would give me one 5-6 hour stretch.  I tried the dreamfeed at 10 last night (to preempt his habitual 10:30 waking), and he woke up at 1ish, so he still seems determined to wake every 3 hours regardless.  Plus I'm not sure how successful the dreamfeed was at actually getting calories in him.  He fed for 20-30 minutes, but very slowly and leisurely....

And I don't think it's an issue with sleep associations/props, because he goes to sleep at bedtime independently without much fuss and is able to put himself back to sleep for some wakings without a feeding.  So it seems like it is tied to a combination of hunger and habit.  I'm thinking maybe he needs more calories during the day, but I'm not sure how to get them in.  I wish it were as easy as adding more ounces of formula to a bottle!

We generally feed at 7, 10:30, 2, 5ish, and 7, so the 5 p.m. feed is a cluster feed.  I'm not sure how I could fit in any others.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback! 

[becj86]

How would he go if you fed him, did an activity for 10-15mins, then fed again for each feed during the day? He's probably pretty distractable at this age and DS was like this - wouldn't feed well for day feeds and wanted to feed more at night. I would get what I could into him when he woke up, then let him play with whatever it was that had caught his attention, then give him another go at feeding. It got us through a month or two and then he didn't need it any more.

[Erin M]

The dream feed doesn't work for everyone, but when it does you would need several days (about a week) to see for sure if it was working or not.  I might continue to try it for a few days to see if it does work, and if not just scrap the whole idea.  

[SILLYFACE]

Hi ya!
We manage 6 feeds usually. I offer both sides and switch back to the first if necessary - it's a far easier way of increasing your supply rather than pumping. Make sure he takes a good satisfying feed and you'll know he's not just snacking.
Could he be on a growth spurt?
How is his weight on the (dreaded) centile graph? If he's following that he's fine. It is normal for babies to slow down with their rate of growth from 4 months onward because they are so active during the day. My LO is nearly 5 months and only 12lb 2oz - she gains about 2oz a week. After 3 months of worrying about my supply and almost switching to bottles, I eventually accepted that is her. She is tiny but SO active. She is following the curve and achieving the milestones. So she's fine.
Good luck -perhaps you could try a 3 1/2 EASY to see if that makes a difference xxxx

[kingme37]

becj86, that's an idea...I guess I am just afraid that it would turn into a snacking habit.

Sillyface, we have been switching up sides, and I think that is helping.  I don't think it is a growth spurt, because this has been going on for awhile and he eats normally during the day.  And he is still over 50th percentile on the charts (and that's the regular charts, not WHO), so that is reassuring at least. 

Overall, I'm feeling more confident that things are going well i.e. that my milk supply is sufficient.  We'll see what the doctor says at his six month visit. 

Oh, and as for the wakings, I have been trying wake-to-sleep about an hour before his normal 10:30 night waking, and I think it is working.  He goes back to sleep pretty easily (unlike if he woke on his own, which would be a long battle of PU/PD OR a wimpy feeding), and then doesn't wake up to eat until 12ish, takes a good feeding, and the rest of the night goes relatively smoothly.

Thanks again!

[becj86]

I think its different from snacking (small feeds ~2hr apart), as its so close together and then a big gap to the next feed and you can just shrink the time between the two sections of the split feed as he becomes less distracted. Certainly never made DS into a snacker...

[bbsmom]

I am glad that you posted. I also have not seen results from dream feeding, but I have never done it for an entire week.  My 4 month old also wakes up to eat at night. His last feed is at 7pm, then he usually wakes around 1am, then 3:30 or 4am. I think that the 3am time may be habitual waking because he will go back to sleep pretty easily if I hold him and give a pacifier. I am just starting EASY, and I am also concerned about milk supply. I am also afraid that when we start PUPD that I will be doing this when LO is actually hungry.  We haven't started PUPD because he has been sick with a horrific cough and cold, and we didn't feel it was the right time to make a major change such as that, plus the crying increases and intensifies his cough.

[Erin M]

betheveritt, you are probably right about the 3:30 feeding being habit if he'll go to sleep easily if you hold him and give him the paci.  Definitely wait until your son is completely better before you start -- that way you'll be confident that it's not illness that's making him wake.  You'd be surprised as to how much of this can be accomplished through routine tweaks instead of pu/pd too.   

[bbsmom]

Thanks, I am hoping that dream feeding, and wake to sleep can get the night waking under control. He used to be a great sleeper, then when he had his 3 month growth spurt we fed at night, and it really didn't occur to me that it would turn into a habit. I just thought that after the spurt was over he would go back to sleeping like before.  I really wish I would have read Tracy's book earlier.  I will definitely be referring it to others, and keeping it on hand from now on!

I have to admit that I do have some anxiety that my LO is going to be really hungry, and I am going to miss read his cues while trying to get him on a schedule.  He is pretty difficult to feed when he is full, so I am not sure how I can encourage him to take a little more volume to get on track.  Once he unlatches, I burp him, then try to latch him again, and if he is not interested he arches, pushes away, and will cry if I continue to attempt to latch him.  I don't want nursing to become a bad experience for him. 

[Erin M]

Generally we like to think they can go as long at night as during the day so that's a good place to startif you're worried about him being hungry.  . Nfs are totally normal at his age - we did the DF and a 3 am-ish nf up until about 8 months. 

[bbsmom]

That is my goal as well. Last night we did a dream feed at 10, then he woke at 12:30, but went back to sleep easily, and we fed a 2:30.  He did wake at about 3:30 as usual, and put himself back to sleep! I