Should I introduce a dreamfeed for my 9 1/2 month old?

[LouiseV]

Hi, we have been going up and down with sleeping issues since my wee man was 5 months old but we now look like this:

6.30-7 asleep (depends on how good day naps were - in general he has two 1hr 15 naps)
Sometime before midnight - needs help to resettle, so I pat and shush. I dont usually pick him up
3.30 Wakes for a feed (try as I might he won't let me wean this feed! he didnt have it when he was little, he picked it up at around 6 months!)
5-6 awake (unless he snuggles down with me in which case he will sleep til 7.30 sometimes!)

I was wondering if a 10pm dreamfeed would maybe help him to last until the morning? Has anyone had any experiences with this?
And what would you do if he still woke at 3 for that feed? (its not always exactly the same time)

Thanks so much

[*Kara*]

You would be weaning the DF now so no, I wouldn't introduce one.

What does his typical EASY look like right now?  Could be that he needs a little tweak

[LouiseV]

OK thanks - good to know I was going to start tonight! he just seems so hungry in the night, even though he eats a lot of solids now and still BFs a lot during the day for good lengths of time too.

Things are changing all the time at the moment but we are kind of like this...

6 awake and BF
7 breakfast

9.30 - 10 (gets grumpy about 3 hours after his wake time) nap for 1hr 15 or only 45 minutes some days

11 BF and lunch

2-2.30 Nap (same as above, some days 1hr 15 others only 45)

4 BF and dinner

5.30 bedtime routine

6.30 bedtime

Then he will sometimes need help resettling before midnight, often has a really hard wakeup around midnight and then wakes at 3 and if I dont feed he will scream until the morning (we tried....!I stayed with him trying to settle him without the feed, for 4 days, but he never agreed to this...!)

It is getting so exhausting, and I feel like we are so close to getting him through the night but I think I need some help with his whole routine

Thanks so much

[*Kara*]

Quick glance makes me think he is in need of a tweak hun - short A times for his age and short naps because of it... could be that dreaded UT/OT loop for sure!  UT for nap 1 leads to a short nap and OT over the rest of the day... been there! 

Moving you to the EASY forum for some specific advice   I will post once I get you all moved over

[*Kara*]

Welcome to EASY

Given his age and that his first nap is UT most certainly, I would push his first A time to a consistent 4 hrs.  I understand that he is showing signs earlier, but that could simply be a body clock issue - his body is used to a certain nap time and reacts accordingly... it could just be boredom too   Hold that first A time at 4 hrs for a few days and see what happens with that nap... hopefully it will push out to a solid 90 mins

If so, do another 4 hrs A time and put down again... 

I know that you are likely thinking that your day is gonna get really long, but it's likely that you are in the early part of the 2-1 when you run out of daytime hours trying to get everything in!  Totally normal to push out to a 13-14 hr day in the month or two before you start nap capping

[LouiseV]

Thanks so much, thats really helpful. I will start the first 4 hour A time tomorrow, which will likely be a 10ish first nap.
How long do you think the second A time should be at this stage? Keep his second nap at around 2/2.30 or move it later still - and then a later BT too?

I just put him down to bed slightly later (7 as opposed to 6.30 / 6.45) and he fell asleep much more easily, within 10minutes.

[*Kara*]

If you get a decent first nap of 90 mins or more, he will need a solid 4 hrs before a second nap

BT could be pushed out as late as 730/745, depending on that second nap... you can certainly start to cap it if you find BT is getting too late.

[LouiseV]

Well what do you know he did it. He just woke from an hour 25 nap after a very painful 4 hour A time! I think your are right about his body clock. Usually his naps are tiny if he's overtired but even thou he was a mess b the time I put him down he slept beautifully. I even heard him wake after 45 and resettle. Unheard of!!!!

Il try another 4 hours now which will be a nap at 3.15 or I might pull it back to 3 as usually he'd struggle to make it that long. Should I wake him if he's more an an hour do you think or just see how it goes and adjust his bedtime? I feel so nervous playing with his sleep times and lengths but I now it's for the best argh

If he did another good sleep he'd likely wake at 4.15 and I'd put him to bed later than usual. He's normally down by 7 at the absolute latest should I push that to 7.30?

[kingme37]

Hi!  I'm new to the forums, so take my advice for a grain of salt...but I'm wondering if he really is hungry at that 3 am feeding because you aren't getting enough feedings in during the day?  My LO is only five months, but from everything I've read, breast milk is still the primary vehicle for nutrition throughout the first year, and it packs in more calories than they can get from solids at this age.  In Kathleen Huggin's The Nursing Mother's Companion, she says babies 6-12 months should have SEVEN feedings a day (that may be a bit much, but I would think they need at least 4-5?).

From the description of your EASY routine, it looks like you only have three BF sessions during the day (although I could be misunderstanding something).  So instead of adding in a dreamfeed at this late stage, since your LO should be physically capable of fasting through the night, you could try adding in an extra feed somewhere else during the day.  Once you feel like he is getting those extra calories, or perhaps simultaneously, you could try weaning off that nighttime feeding gradually by decreasing nursing time a minute each night.

[LouiseV]

Hey thanks for that. He still has loads of feelings -possibly too many but I can't shift that! I'm of the same mindset that milk is more important than solids under one

Part of the reason I'm so determined to lose thatb3am feed but not yet!

[tahiranisa]

What is UT?
I'm on the exact same schedule with my 9.5 mo and thinking my A times might be the cause of MY heartache too! I will see about pushing him.

[*Kara*]

UT = undertired

3 BF's would be completely normal at 9 months of age, so with the added NF, you are totally fine with number of feeds.  I am going to make a bet that he stops waking for that NF once we get him good and tired

Good job Louise!  Glad to hear you got a good first nap!  Be on the lookout for a bit of OT and don't be too afraid to put him down a touch early for a nap if you think he really needs it (usually happens after a couple of days of pushing A times out).

RE; nap #2 - you can do two things - put him down a bit under the 4 hr mark and hope he wakes from the nap earlier (like a short nap cause he was UT) to keep BT on track... or you can let him sleep and push BT out a bit   Up to you

[LouiseV]

Kara you are a lifesaver! I put him down exactly 4 hours later for that second nap, figured I may as well just go for it, and he woke exactly 45 mins later but I let him get up as I wasn't sure if this was ok or not for now. That was at 4pm so I'm thinking of a 7.15 BT which isn't another 4 hours but is 1/2 hr later than normal for him. He doesn't seem overly tired but we'll see how this goes....!

Do you think I should be aiming for 3 x 4 hour A times? So pushing for two long naps and a later bedtime until we transition to one nap? That's the part I'm a bit unsure of

Thanks so much I feel a glimmer of hope and hope this will help other mums in this same tricky age range!

[*Kara*]

NO!  3 - 4hr A"s plus naps will leave you with a way too short night.  It might be good if he takes a shorter PM nap- he will be tired enough for bedtime at a reasonable hour

Once his naps start to take away from night sleep hours, you want to think about capping one of those naps to keep your days from getting too long.

[LouiseV]

Can I let you know where we're up to with our EASY to see if you think we're still on the right track?? I've noticed people are talking about capping one nap in the 2-1 and I don't want to do anything that might hold us up as it has been such a long process to get this far (and honestly this amazing forum has been the thing that really helped me get things moving)

5.15 wake and BF (oh yes. I used to feed him then but he'd go back to sleep for 2 hours. Not anymore. Argh)
9.30 Nap (I try and do this nap whenever 4 hours after the wake up time is) for 1 1/2 hours (suddenly this nap is longer - used to be either 45 or 1 hr 15)
11 BF and lunch
3 Nap for 1hr 15
4.30 BF and dinner
6.30 BF
7.30 BT

2.45am (pretty consistently this exact time this week) he will wake up and feed.

2 nights ago he woke at 2, cried and then resettled - this has NEVER happened before. Then he woke at 2.45am. He also woke up at 5 and cried - but then resettled (seriously, this is SO unlike him) and then woke again and was up from 5.45.

Thanks so so much for having a look. He is not quite 10 months and is extremely active (walking and moves nonstop) so I would imagine would be needing 2 naps for quite awhile? Does that seem to affect it?