Night/early waking

[AmsBarrett]

Hi,

I have a 16 week old baby, we started doing BW very losely at 8 weeks which worked well for us, then Christmas came and with visiting family and our baby sleeping in a travel cot, sleeping in the pram for naps and sometimes being allowed to sleep in families arms it all started to go a bit wrong!

So I got the BW books back out and read lots of posts on this forum to get back on track and do it all by the book. Below is a good example of our daily routine, and where we are having issues with night and early wakings;

E-7-7.30am
A-
S-8.30-9am for 45 mins I can sometimes extend to 1 hour but after 2 weeks of trying I think I have realised he is not going to do more than this
A-light until hungry
E-10.30-11am
A-play gym, tummy time, in bouncer chair with toy, talking reading ( not all but 1 or some of these)
S-12-30-1pm he can now do 1 1/2 to 2 hours with  no intervention
E- 3pm
A- as above but try not to put on gym or over stimulate at this stage in the day
S-catnap for 45 mins any time from 4.30-5ish
E-5.30pm ( cluster feed as we don't do DF)
A- 6.15 bath, massage
E-light feed before bed
S- bed between 7pm and 7.30pm

Wakings
10pm ish, not hungry goes straight back to sleep with paci and stoke on head
Between 12.30-2am- wake for feed
4.30am then every hour he wakes, tried to feed, not hungry, tried to work around possible too hot or too cold, does not seem to be an issue' even took his temperature last week in case he was unwell!

So basically our main issue is the early wakings, they used to start at 5am, we done the wake to sleep for a week, it did not work, but when we stopped trying he started to wake at the time we used to go in and stirring him- not a good outcome!  The wakings are  getting earlier and earlier and last night he woke up at 4.15am! It takes a long time to settle him and when I do he wakes after 45 mins, try to feed he does not take anything, so really lost where we're going wrong! He is getting max 13 hours sleep in a 24 hour period' which does not seem bad but it's all very broken and that's the max but now he is waking up earlier and if it takes a while to get him to settle some days this is only about 11 hours, he has started to get really grumpy in the day and it's hard to keep the activity time as long as I do without missing sleep cues as he is so tired.

He is combination fed, BF during the day with formula top up which takes about 45 mins including winding. He only has formula from light feed before bed, and start BF at first morning feed at 7-730am.

I have no idea if his cries are mantra or not, but I never rush in until they start to escalate and his eyes are always open looking towards the door for me when I go in.

If anyone has any advice where I maybe going wrong please let me know as it just seems to be getting worse and I'm pulling my hair out!

Thank you!

[AmsBarrett]

Hi Jane,

Thank you so much for replying.

Activity time is between 1 1/2 to 2 hours, with his morning nap as it's so short we end up doing EASAE, also I count the time from when I get him up for the day, so if I have been trying to extend his last early waking it may mean he is actually awake for a bit longer if I can't get him settled again so do i count the time he is awake from in this case, or when i actally get him up?  I also did wonder if I am doing enough with him in A time as he takes so long to feed?

I have tried to use the paci as a comforter but please let me know if you think it is now a prop;

- never used apart from naps or bedtime in his cot, this does however include if we are out in pram car seat if he due a nap
- I have only used it since he was 7/8 weeks
- before doing BW a bit more religiously since Xmas I used to use it at bedtime but check after 20mins or so after he went down and if he had not spat it out himself, I took it out, he never woke up
- now I have started to settle him using the wind down, bedtime routine, we do the ssh pat standing up, then when he is drowsy put him down awake, he does not let me do the ssh pat in the cot so I just stroke his head, give him the paci and try to stop his fingers pocking him. Once his eyes are closed and he has stopped twitching, I time 2 mins and take the paci out, I then stay with him for around another 5 mins or until I know he's in a deep sleep
- if I try to extend a nap, or he spits it out to early you can see him routing for it so I pop it back in and start again

Do you think I am using it in the wrong way? It does really help settle him but if you think it's more of a prop that could possibly be causing the night wakings then happy to try anything!

Thank you for your advice x x

[AmsBarrett]

Hi Jane,

Thanks so much, I've managed to do 2 hours A time today, he went down for his catnap at 5 which is later than normal so worked out well.

I will make sure we don't end up using the paci for anything other than settling, I think he is already very aware of it so fingers crossed it does not end up being a prop!

What is ssh rub? The issue is that he arches his back and wakes fully if I try to put him on his side, although today I have tried again and he did let me do it to put him down for 1 nap and to extend the afternoon one, so maybe I gave up too easily. He was having none of it however to put him down tonight!

Thanks again, I will try to keep A time longer this week and see if it makes a difference.

Xxx

[AmsBarrett]

Hi,

Thanks so much for your advice, I have been changing things so that my sons A time has increased to 2 hours, he has adapted to it well, it just means a few other tweaks have had to be made, I have had to drop the 5.30pm cluster feed, and just do a full feed before bed, plus try really hard to extend the dreaded 30/45 morning nap so he is not too tired.

Below is our new easy, based on yesterday, we are still getting the night/early wakings, the first one I am not too worried about as he is easy to settle back to sleep, but it's the early wakings that are killing me!

E-7-10am
A-
S-9.15-10.30 he woke after 40mins I spent most of the remainder time in with him helping him extend
A-light until hungry
E-1115-1200
A
S-1pm - in car as drove to mums, woke after 40 mins, back down at 2.20, I then woke him to feed and keep on track
E- 3.30pm
A
S-5.20pm - 6pm catnap in car on way home from mums
A- 6.00 bath, massage, he gets very irritable and upset by dressing stage as very tired!
E-6.30
S-  7pm

Wakings
9.45, resettled with a cuddle and stroking head, did not need paci
1am wake for feed, back down 1.45am
5am, my husband tried to settle for 30 mins, i then took over and finally got him back down at 6.15am and he woke at 6.50 so got him up for the day

I have no problem continuing with the new extended A time but I just need to make sure with the other tweaks I am not introducing something further to keep the early wakings there. He is just so tired so I could not get him up when he wakes at 5, and by end of the day he is so irritable as he really has not had enough sleep.

Should it take this long without seeing any noticeable difference?

Any further advice would be appreciated!!!

Thank you!

[AmsBarrett]

Hi,

I have just read that Jane has now left this forum, is anyone else able to offer any advice or help on the above?

Thank you!
Xx

[AmsBarrett]

Hi Jane, great you are still around!

Still very early wakings, some have gone back to 4.15am! Had a really good night on Thursday, 1st wake up at 1am, did not want feeding and straight back down, woke at 2am, fed and back down asleep by 2.45am and woke at 5.30- the latest yet!

Just when I thought we had a breakthrough I had the night from hell last night, 1st awake at 10pm then woke constantly all night, longest stretch he did was 1hr 10mins after 10pm! I never really got to go back to sleep.

Think he is having a spurt as he had loads of formula top up before bed last night and I have had to do more than normal formula top ups on today's feeds. He was also wriggling all over the cot and may have been waking himself up by hitting the sides!

If I could just get the little man to go to 6am with no wakings after his night feed we would have a much happier household, so any further suggestions greatly welcomed!!!!

[chesterella]

Hi there
I am having the same issue. My LOs morning naps are always 45 minutes and the rest of our routines look the same as yours. He is up EVERY night between 4-4:45 and I cannot get him back down until his feeding at 6am and then I AP and have him sleep with me until 8. That way I can do a little snuggle if he needs it and settle him quickly. I am just waiting until he sleeps better through the night before kicking myself in the butt for APing so much. I just need the sleep from 5-8am! My fist DS gets up at 8 and I have not times for naps in the day for myself. Lets see if we can stick together and get rid of this EW!

[AmsBarrett]

Hi Jane, I did read elsewhere the 4 month growth spurt is a big one, although the early wakings are not due to this as he's been doing them since being around 13/14 weeks old! If you have any other ideas how to extend his mornings please do let me know!!

Hi chesterella pleased to hear someone else is in the same boat! Have you been given any other advice? We have tried the wake to sleep for a week which only prompted him to wake up an hour earlier! We have now extended his A time to 2 hours and he seems happy with that and some nights he now does not have a waking before he wakes for a feed between 1-2am, which is good but it was the early waking I was trying to change!  What's AP/APing?

[chesterella]

Wow! Its so funny how similar our situations are:

We have now extended his A time to 2 hours and he seems happy with that and some nights he now does not have a waking before he wakes for a feed between 1-2am, which is good but it was the early waking I was trying to change!

This is exactly what is going on with us. AP-ing is Accidental Parenting. I have the little bugger sleep with me just to get some sleep.
I have not gotten any other advice that was tried and true in my situation. I am having a feeding specialist come to the house tomorrow to see if there is a way I can improve his latch on to his bottles. His gas is the culprit here and I have tried everything to get him to stop swallowing air but nothing works. We'll see if she has some magic advice!

[AmsBarrett]

Does anyone else have any advice how to cap these early wakings? I've gone back to cluster feeding in the evening as think he may be having a 4 month growth spurt. Today's easy was;

Numerous wakings during the night, woke every hour from 10pm, fed at 3.30am, back to sleep 4.30am, awake 5.30am, tried to resettle ended up getting up for day at 6.45am

E-7.15
A-8.00
S-8.45, only did 35 mis could not resettle so put in the sling to get off at around 945am, after 10mins put in cot (awake but very sleepy) did another 35mins woke 10.30am
E-11.00
A-11.45
S-12.30 until 2.30 in pram as I was meeting friends, I actually woke him as did not want him to sleep more than 2 hours
E-3.00
A-3.45
S-4.30, woke after 15mins but may have been caused by hubby getting in from work, took until 5.20 to resettle but slept for further 35 mins
E-6pm. Cluster feed
A-bath, massage
E-6.50 light feed
S-7.15pm bed, would not settle tonight until 7.40pm

He was the happiest ever tonight after getting out of the bath as its normally such a battle!

I am dreading tonight, I can take the night wakings if they are due to a growth spurt but the early wakings are killing me- anything I could do/change to get sorted?

Thank you!

[AmsBarrett]

Another awful night!

Awake 10pm, settled quickly
Woke 1am, settled
Woke2.50am fed, would not settle until 4am
Awake 5.20am
My husband managed to get him back to sleep at 5.45, woke at 6.15

We're all shattered and my son is definitely not getting the sleep he needs, only a total of 13 hours yesterday over a 24 hour period!

I've got to change this! Any ideas anyone???

[chesterella]

I know it's no help but I am in the same boat and I feel like crying but my husband says just to "bow our heads and move forward" and I am trying to do so. Are you and your husband taking shifts? Does he go to work early the next day? Are you working? My LO cannot stay down for his naps and ends up OT for the entire night, up and down, up and down. I don't know what to do either.

[AmsBarrett]

Hi Jane,

My day was a bit messed up today as he had his jabs, but below is what I posted for previous day, and last night is above,


Numerous wakings during the night, woke every hour from 10pm, fed at 3.30am, back to sleep 4.30am, awake 5.30am, tried to resettle ended up getting up for day at 6.45am

E-7.15
A-8.00
S-8.45, only did 35 mis could not resettle so put in the sling to get off at around 945am, after 10mins put in cot (awake but very sleepy) did another 35mins woke 10.30am
E-11.00
A-11.45
S-12.30 until 2.30 in pram as I was meeting friends, I actually woke him as did not want him to sleep more than 2 hours
E-3.00
A-3.45
S-4.30, woke after 15mins but may have been caused by hubby getting in from work, took until 5.20 to resettle but slept for further 35 mins
E-6pm. Cluster feed
A-bath, massage
E-6.50 light feed
S-7.15pm bed, would not settle tonight until 7.40pm

I check for teeth constantly, last time yesterday and nothing. He does dribble quite a bit now and again and although he wants to put everything in his mouth he never seems to do it to help with teeth, so just think that's a developmental stage.

The night wakings are picking up again now as well, I just feel things are getting worse rather than better!

Happy to try any suggestions!

He does use the paci to put him to sleep/naps but we take it out 2 mins after his eyes close and he settles, could this be a prop? Should we try and wean him from it? Also we stay with him for 7-10 mins to get him through jolts by gently holding or hovering over his arms, and leave when we know he has drifted in to a deep enough sleep- have we become a prop?

Also unless I am out in the pram I seem to have noticed naps are getting shorter, the morning one is around 25 mins/30 max and now he can't do much more than that in the afternoon either!

I feel like I am missing something really obvious! Since we started BW full on since the new year things have just got worse not better and now I don't know which way to go!

My husband does most of it at weekends' he goes to work at 6.30 during the week so does help with the early waking, however i normally have to take over at 6 am so he can get ready, and because he gets up early and does a manual job I do pretty much everything else- I have definitely hit a 4 month wall with tiredness, and our poor little man is so tired all the time!

I am really The stage to try any suggestions but frightened to make any major changes without some advice in case it makes it even worse!

Thank you!

[AmsBarrett]

Thanks Jane, I started to miss the intervention stage so will try earlier at 20 mins, he hates the patting or rubbing on his back but will of course give it another go!

I will do some reading up on weaning the dummy as well.

I think he is over tired as really is not getting enough sleep in 24 hours so it's a vicious circle.

I will give things another week-10 days to try the above and report back how I get on. Fingers crossed! Xx