Author Topic: 2 hour NW throwing me for a loop  (Read 1019 times)

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Offline Nooshers

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2 hour NW throwing me for a loop
« on: January 28, 2012, 19:50:23 pm »
My 4 mo DS has started waking at night for 2 hours before going back to sleep. He sleeps in a crib in his own room and was starting to sleep pretty well before this situation came up. He slept through the night a few times (8 pm - 5 or 6am) once he turned 3 mo, and if he did wake to eat it would usually be around 3-4am and he would go back down pretty easily (within an hour). Last week (right when he turned 16 weeks) he woke at midnight (very early for him). He was crying so I fed him but he showed none of his usual drowsy signs until 2 hours had passed and then he went right to sleep. He did this for 3 nights in a row so I began to suspect 4 mo GS.

I was EBF so began offering him supplemental formula. On the first day he took a lot of extra formula (like 6 oz) after 2 feedings and slept pretty well that night (until 5am I think). I began pumping after each feeding thinking I needed to increase my milk supply. I did a yield on day 1 and after 3 days of extra pumping I did another yield and didn't see much increase in my supply. I've continued to offer him a supplemental bottle after nursing but it's been hit or miss as to whether he'll eat more. Many times he will eat more but will also throw up a lot for ~2 hours after eating. So maybe I'm overfeeding him? We did get 1 or 2 good nights early on when I started the extra feedings, but they don't seem to have helped for the last 4 days or so. He still wakes up for 2 hours every night. Seems to me if he was really waking from hunger he should settle back down after eating (like he used to do) but that's not happening.

He doesn't fall asleep independently, but has been doing pretty well with sh/pat during nap and BT. When I try sh/pat during the NW it just seems to annoy him. Once the 2 hours have passed he'll go to sleep pretty easily with sh/pat. I've read other posts that say NW for extended periods can be due to UT.  When he is awake at night he's fairly content as long as I'm with him. If I leave him he'll start to grumble and then cry and then I have to hold him to calm him down, but he still won't go to sleep until the 2 hrs pass.

We're on a 4 hr EASY and have been since he was 3 months. His A time is about 1 hr 50 min to 2 hours. His days aren't very consistent but on average a typical day is:

7:30 Eat
9:30 - 11:30 Nap. He always stirs at 45 min but I can usually keep him down by sitting with him during the transition.
11:30 Eat
1:30 - 3:30 Nap (same as 1st nap)
3:30 Eat
5:30 CN (30-45 min)
6:30  eat
8:00  eat (sometimes if BT is a struggle)
BT somewhere between 8-9pm

For the last 3 days I haven't been able to get him to take his catnap so he was definitely OT by the time I finally got him down at BT. Also, I don't DF. I tried for the first 2 mo but he never took much and didn't seem to help. I tried a DF 2 nights ago and he took 3 oz, but it just seemed to push his wake up time to 3am (instead of midnight). I didn't do a DF last night and he still woke up at 2:30 so I'm still not sure if DF will help.

I'm considering trying PU/PD because I don't want to enforce this pattern of hanging out with him for 2 hours, but since he shows no signs of drowsiness until 2 hrs pass I'm not sure if it would work or would just make him angry for 2 hours until he's ready to sleep again.  

Any ideas?


« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 22:06:03 pm by Nooshers »

Offline Bex09

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Re: 2 hour NW throwing me for a loop
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2012, 22:30:15 pm »
Hi there, often long happy NW can be a sign of UT and LO needing to increase A times yes. It can be other things too though! Your A times and routine looks great to me.

Do you always feed at the NW? Is your DS sick after the NF? Any reflux or allergies going on? Were the NW worse or the same with the missed CN? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get to the bottom of things.

I think carrying on with the shush/pat is a good idea. PU/PD should only be used as a last resort when nothing else works. It can't be used with a LO who isn't crying either as you only PU when they are crying.



Offline Nooshers

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Re: 2 hour NW throwing me for a loop
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2012, 23:17:57 pm »
Thanks for the fast reply!  To date, yes, I've always fed him at NW because it always occurs at least 4+ hours since his last feed. Yes, he does spit up a lot after the NF, but he spits up a lot during day feeds too. No allergies that we know of, but he may have some reflux. He never liked to sleep flat on his back and was in the carseat for the first 3 months. However, I successfully moved him to the crib 4 weeks ago. I guess because he hasn't had this issue since day 1 of being in the crib I'm reluctant to think it's because of reflux. Also, it's not like he'll settle while I hold him and wake up only when I lay him down YKWIM? I think the NW were basically the same with the missed CN. On those nights he stirred about an hour after BT (probably thinking BT was his CN) but I was able to re-settle and he slept until the 3-5am or 2-4am NW.

If I lay him in the crib during the NW he will complain and eventually cry. Do you think I should keep him in the crib and sh/pat even though it annoys him? I wonder if it's better to try to keep him in the crib as much as possible and PU when necessary vs trying to hold him and shush him until he's drowsy (which is what I've been doing). I'm afraid we're building a habit where he gets mom to hold him for 2 hrs every night.

Offline Bex09

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Re: 2 hour NW throwing me for a loop
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2012, 23:26:00 pm »
Have you tried raising the cot up at one end so that your DS is elevated? This can really help if reflux is a problem. I would try to calm him as much as possible in the cot with shush/pat and would avoid PU/PD especially if you suspect reflux at all. PU/PD can make reflux worse. Obviously if your LO is really upset then you will want to PU and comfort him, but try to avoid the repeated picking up again and again.

I am going to try to get some more reflux eyes on this for you hun just to see what others think. Hang in there. :)



Offline Nooshers

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Re: 2 hour NW throwing me for a loop
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2012, 02:13:23 am »
Yes, I did try elevating the crib once but he rolled around a lot and it didn't seem to help. I may try again tonight just to see what happens.

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 2 hour NW throwing me for a loop
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2012, 04:26:53 am »
Hi there,
Any teeth on their way? Teething can mess up sleep and cause enough discomfort to wake and prevent LO getting back to sleep...have you tried medicating with pain meds on NW to see if he settles quicker
There is also a developmental leap coming up he could have hit early...possiblely the reflux playing up a bit...

Your routine looks good but I think BT is too late. Can you try the CN at 6 and then BT at 8?
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Nooshers

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Re: 2 hour NW throwing me for a loop
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2012, 17:28:47 pm »
I don't think it's teeth. BT is always a challenge and he seems to fall asleep 3 hrs after waking from the CN regardless of how early I start the BT routine. I'll keep trying to move it up though. That said, he had a late BT last night (10pm) but I managed to feed him one last time before he fell asleep and he slept all night (to 6:30am). I raised the mattress too so maybe that helped. Will see how tonight goes.

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 2 hour NW throwing me for a loop
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2012, 19:18:44 pm »
What is the earliest you have tried to PD for BT after the CN? I would try as early as 45mins if you havent already.

(HUGS) they can be so hard to work out these LOs!

I would also try giving pain meds 20mins before BT to rule out discomfort. D you think the reflux is flaring? Are you getting any symptoms of it?
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Nooshers

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Re: 2 hour NW throwing me for a loop
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2012, 16:42:24 pm »
He seems to be resisting the CN (missed another one last night), so I'll keep working on BT.  Haven't tried as early as 45 min after CN yet.

He slept again last night though. Not sure if it's the DF or raised mattress but hope this continues!

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 2 hour NW throwing me for a loop
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2012, 18:29:05 pm »
I would def try BT pretty much on WU of the CN and maybe after a good night like this try an additional 15mins A time to the first A to see if he needs an A increase.
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.