cutting the catnap?

[chirojaz]

So my DD has resisted the late afternoon catnap a handful of times and then other times she takes it.  I really think that she (and I) are ready to be done with it.  She is 7 months, 3 weeks old.  I have tried extending her awake time though and even when I do by only 10 or 15 minutes it results in her nap being short    Our schedule looks like this....
wake up 6:30
breastfeed 7am
solids 8am
sleeps anytime between 9 and 9:30. Today was 9:10 since she woke at 6:15.
wake 10:25 (tried to breastfeed her at 11 but would not take it, was not hungry? waited til 12)
lunch 12:30
sleep 1:10
wake 2:30
breastfeed 3pm (wouldn't take it til 4pm)
catnap 4:40 til 5:25 (45 minutes)
dinner 5:45
breastfeed 6:30
sleep 7 (she did not actually fall asleep until 8:15!! Was in her crib babbling then it would be quiet for a little while then she would be up again, some fussing)
What I am wondering is if she was not tired enough? She got really fussy, crying in the bath around 6:15, and continued to cry on and off during our bedtime routine so I thought she must be tired.  But it took her FOREVER to fall asleep which usually she puts herself to sleep within 10 minutes. I know her afternoon nap should be closer to 2pm but I can't seem to get her there without her getting overtired by me extending her awake time by even 10-15  minutes!  I am at a loss of what to do. Would it be bad that if tomorrow I keep her up until 6:30 after she wakes from her afternoon nap around 2:30?  I feel like I have been trying to transition her for so long.  When I try to extend her awake time she usually takes a short nap so then I HAVE to give her a catnap because she only slept for like 30-40 minutes in the afternoon.  Please help! I am at a loss

[ZacsMumme]

I would try one last little A push to get that nap closer to 1.5hours, its okay to do just 5mins extra every few days just to get that last little bit of A for the 2 naps.  1hr15min naps were always UT for us. 
Can you push that PM sleep closer to 1.30 and then go for BT of 6pm? Dropping the CN is a bit of a PITA and you will get a bit of OT but you really need to do the EBT to get through it sometimes or you will have that CN for too long and the nights get really short.

[Avery3]

can i just say that you literally wrote exactly how our day went today and how it goes most days. ive done the 2.30-6pm A time and it wasnt pretty.... but then neither was giving a catnap.

it just makes a messy time dropping the catnap. I think its a tough call between a later bedtime with the CN or an earlier bedtime with a long A time

[ZacsMumme]

it just makes a messy time dropping the catnap. I think its a tough call between a later bedtime with the CN or an earlier bedtime with a long A time

Oh yeah!! I remember it clearly...unfortunately the 2-1 is also not pretty...but at least by then they seem to cope with the OT a bit better.

[chirojaz]

Zacsmum, do you think if I put her down at 6pm that she will still wake up at her usual time?  I am nervous that she might wake up a bit earlier?  Also, I am finding it hard right now to do 4 breast feedings since she is resisting to feed when she wakes up from her nap.  If she has a 6pm bedtime I don't think I could get 4 feeds in. Right now she is breastfeeding at 7, around 12 (because she resists when I offer at 11), 3:30 or 4, and 6:30.  What do you think? 

[chirojaz]

Zacsmumme I am also curious how you said 1 hr 15min was under tired for you....looking back at my journal (I have been logging everything) most of her naps in the morning have been anywhere from 1 hr 10 minutes to 1 hr 20min.  Do you think these are all under tired naps?

[ZacsMumme]

For some babies it's just the norm, however if you usually got 1.5-2 hrs then it dropped to 1hr15 then it could be time for an A increase.

I am going to pop your thread over to the EASY board to get some advice on your total day including BF

[Ima shel Alon]

I agree with Sara regarding UT. You could stretch A time very slowly and even if she gives you short naps don't despair, it usually takes them like three days to get used to a new A time.
On days you get short naps you will go for the CN, but generally her age is normal for dropping it and you usually know it when they start resisting it. Once you get your A time longer and her napping 2x1.5h at least then your day will sort out itself.
How much solids is she taking? I am asking because till she is 1y her main nutrition should still come from BF. However, if you think the amount of solids is good and when she does BF she is taking full feeds then I don't see a problem. I also think it's worth a try in EBT days to give a BT feed because many babies take them even if they are not particularly hungry, just because it calms them so much.
It's hard to know if she will still wake up at the same time in the morning, you'll know if you try For us it never mattered what time we had BT, WU was always the same time.

[chirojaz]

@ Ima shel Alon-
She is taking three meals a day of solids.  Each meal is probably about 3-4 tablespoons including either fruit/veggie and a grain.  I just added the third meal about a week or so ago, prior to that I was giving her solids just mornings and evenings.  I am worried that she is wanting the solids more than the breast milk?  And worried that my breast milk supply is going to go down.  Should I stop doing the solids or maybe just go back to two meals a day? I am following what the book "super baby food" has to say about solids.
Also curious about my nap times.  Yesterday I increased them to nearly three hours A time and she did good, slept 1 hr 15min in the morning and 1 hr 30 min in the afternoon.  Today she woke up at 7am (normally she wakes at 6:30) and so instead of keeping the same times that I put her down yesterday (9:30 and 1:30) I put her down a little bit later since she woke up later and her naps weren't as good.  She slept fine in the am (1 hr 20min) but only 1 hr this afternoon (woke up at 3pm).  Would it be ok to still keep her up til 6:30pm for bedtime given that she did not take as long of naps?  Should I have kept with the same times as yesterday for her naps, 9:30am and 1:30pm?  I hear consistency is key but I'm confused if consistency means the same time for naps every day or the same amount of A time every day

[kitcat]

Not sure if this helps but when I cut the cat-nap with my first I did not do set times for am and pm naps. Rather, I went by A times from the time I first heard her wake-up. I'm thinking your short nap in the afternoon may have been an UT.  Also, I found that on days when we started early or naps ran short I would try to do a cat-nap to tie her over to the later bedtime. It meant I didn't always know how the day woudl unfold but at least we avoided the way OT at the end of the day.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Cat

[Ima shel Alon]

Consistency is a key, but EASY is a routine and not a schedule. With EASY you listen more to your baby, look at her cues. If she wakes up at 7AM and didn't have NW then she had a very good and long night sleep and then maybe she would need more A time during the day. The 1.20h and 1h naps are UT IMO. So Cat is right, even if you choose to look at the clock and not her cues (some babies have no cues or tired cues from the moment they wake up, like us!) then you count the A time from the moment she woke up.
IIWM I'd go for an EBT and not keep her awake for 3.5h. You could have an OT baby on your hands waking up frequently at the first half of the night.
Don't fear so much of EBT, look, you had more A time yesterday and she woke up at 7AM, maybe she needed more A time to sleep till later in the morning.

I am no expert on BF but I will ask someone to come and have a look at your thread who has more knowledge.

[Fiver]

She's still BF, just not when you might be expecting her to.  Supply shouldn't be affected too greatly as your body is working on a supply/demand basis.  If you think she's focusing too much on the solids you could try dialing back the quantities you're giving her for now and see if that has any difference?  Have you tried giving her a BF immediately after she wakes from her nap, while she's still a bit sleepy?  Sometimes LOs are more willing to take a feed when not quite awake as they're less distracted, especially once they're moving around and just want to be on the go

[chirojaz]

@ Ima shel alon-
After the past two days of going great and not needing a catnap I don't know what happened today. This morning she had 2hr45min A time and took a 50min nap.  Because of the shorter nap I made her next A time 2hr 30min and she was definitely showing sleepy signs at that time.  She took a 1hr 30 minute nap which put us at 2:30pm when she woke up.  Soooo I figured I had to give her a catnap, which I did (put her in the front carrier) and she slept from 4:55-5:20pm.  Then put her to bed at 7pm as she was rubbing eyes and definitely looking sleepy.  She has woken up at 8pm, then 9pm!  Is it the catnap that screwed everything up, or was she overtired and that's what is causing the wake ups?  Soooo frustrating! I just want this catnap crap to be OVER!!!!!!

[Ima shel Alon]

You did good, luv. On days like that you just have to have a CN, she can't have such a long stretch to BT.
It does sound like she was OT at BT,but I wouldn't think tomorrow will be the same, iykwim. There are just "those" days, when things go out the window, but tomorrow is a new day and I believe it will go back to be better.
If she gave you a 50min nap in the AM, she might have been UT and if she does the same again then she is probably ready for some more A time.

[chirojaz]

Today was even worse! WHAT is going on?!!!!!!!!!!!!    She woke up at 6:15, on off quiet until 6:45am.  She went down for her first nap at 9:25 and woke up at 10:40, so not so bad with that nap (1hr 15min).  Then this afternoon I put her down at 1:40 and she woke up 30 minutes later!!!!! And would not go back to sleep.  So now I have her in her room trying to get her to sleep and she has been up for a half hour in her crib fussing/babbling!  I don't know what to do!  If I go in there and rock her and get her to sleep at like 5pm, she wakes at 5:30, do I still put her to sleep at 7pm?  I am getting so frustrated with this