Beginning EASY at 5MO with very inconsistent sched ...am I doing this right?

[erinjurnove]

Hi ladies,

I have 2 kids: Isaac, 3.5Y and Ada, 5mo.  This post is about Ada’s naps.  I’ve really been struggling with them and am determined to get her on an EASY schedule if it kills me.  I had no problem with Isaac when he was young (he was super easy going and on EASY from 4/5mo on & it was great).  Things are a little different this time with Ada:
- She is much more opinionated
- She rejected the swaddle from about 2 weeks old.  We tried many alternatives and finally found some success extending sleep periods with the Sleep Suit, but ultimately had to give that up at 3 months because she would spend her wind down time in bed wriggling out of it then getting stuck and losing naps/night time sleep.  She is now in a sleep sack.
- We moved from across the country when she was 6 weeks old, staying at two different sets of relatives for a month before finally moving into our new apartment & unpacking. LOTS of change for all of us.

I have always followed sleepy cues with Ada and since moving into our new apartment 2 months ago, stay home almost all the time to give Ada the best opportunity for falling into a regular daytime routine.  As you'll see from the sample routine listed below, this hasn't happened and I realize I need to have a more specific game plan that WORKS.  Both kids and I need to get out of the house A LOT more regularly for fresh air, running errands, exploring our new town, making friends, and forming a new community for ourselves.  Also, because Ada's routine isn't predictable I don't have a specific Y time each day that I use to take care of MYSELF and get ready for the day.  It's really taking a toll on my outlook and I worry about getting depressed and being a terrible example for our kids...not to mention poor Ada is clearly not rested and I feel like she's being indirectly tortured by not having 3 solid naps each day.
  
OK, so on to my question! Here is what Ada's last 3 days look like.  As you can see, her routine is all over the place.  She doesn't have a consistent nap more than 2 days in a row and I can't predict how long she'll be awake between naps before she starts giving me sleepy cues.  Because her day sleep is so rocky, when 5pm comes along she is so exhausted that what I thought used to be an evening catnap turned into bedtime sleep for her.  So I just went with that and let that become her bedtime.  My plan is to use the advise on this thread (http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63161.0) to transition to a 3.5H EASY with 3 naps a day and hopefully a later bedtime & wake up time.  I’m planning to extend her wakeful periods between each nap, starting with the earliest one and progressing from there.  Once that is established, I'll transition her to a 4H EASY routine.  I'm hoping more solid & regular naps during the day will also eliminate her early morning wakings. She’s recently had a really hard time falling asleep for an afternoon nap though she is exhausted.  

SATURDAY
E:    5:45 (wake & nurse)
A:   6:00
S/Y:   6:45 (45m nap)
E:    7:30
A:   8:00
S/Y:   9:15 (50m nap)
E:    10:15
A:   10:30
E:    11:00
S/Y:   11:45 (2h nap)
E:    2:00
A:   2:20
E:    2:45
S/Y:   attempted nap at 3:00, failed
E:    4:30
S/Y:   5:00 bedtime
E:    6:00
E:    10:30 dreamfed bottle of formula, 5 oz
E:   3:00a

SUNDAY
E:    5:45 (wake & nurse)
A:   6:00
S/Y:   6:45 (45m nap)
E:    7:45
S/Y:   8:15 (55m nap)
E:    9:20
A:   9:45
E:    10:20
S/Y:   11:00 (1.25h nap)
E:    12:30
A:   12:45
E:    1:15
S/Y:   attempted nap at 1:30
E:    2:45
A:   3:00
E:    4:15
S/Y:   5:00 bedtime
E:    6:30
E:    11:00 dreamfed bottle of formula, 5 oz
E:   1:45a

MONDAY
E:    7:00 (wake & nurse)
A:   7:20
S/Y:   7:50 (1.75h nap)
E:    10:00
A:   10:15
E:    10:45
S/Y:   11:00 (1.5h nap)
E:    1:15
A:   1:30
S/Y:   attempted nap at 2:30, failed
E:    3:30
A:   3:45
E:    4:30
S/Y:   5:00 bedtime
E:    9:15
E:    10:30 dreamfed bottle of formula, 5 oz
E:   1:30a
E:   4:30a
   

Can anyone tell me if I'm on the right track here or give suggestions if some other method or other techniques for transition to 3.5H EASY may help us more? I promise to be briefer in future responses/posts!


A few other details that you might need to know:
-  she sleeps in a crib in her own room which has black-out curtains and a white noise machine.
- every bedtime routine (except middle of the night/early morning wakings) is walking around her room together closing the curtains, turn on white noise, put her sleep sack on, rock in rocking chair with a lullaby, goodnight kiss & I love you then into the crib awake and I walk out.
- she has been progressing on learning to crawl over the last 3-4 weeks, but she doesn't seem to be practicing any of this activity during sleep times in the crib.
- I breastfeed exclusively except for the dream feed which my husband gives every night.
- I'm a SAHM and have both kids at home with me every day.
- I’m OK with the one night time feed around 2-3am, but want to get rid of the early morning wakings.
- An example of Activity time always consists of some tummy time since she’s so mobile plus any of the following types of things:
o a short walk around the block in the Ergo
o 15 mins in a doorway jumper
o bath
o dancing with me to kids’ music on the stereo
o doing physical stuff with me or DH (e.g. pulling up to standing holding our fingers, “airplane,” singing sings with signs like Itsy Bitsy Spider, the ABC’s, etc.)
o interacting with Isaac (he likes to talk to her, make her giggle and show her things)

I have been using this forum for a few years (for Isaac and Ada when she was a bit younger) and found all my answers without needing to post!  This is such an incredible resource and you ladies are wonderful, generous parents who save other parents' days/months/years with the insight and realistic advice you share.  THANK YOU for any feedback or help you can give me!!

-Erin

[creations]

Hi Erin.  I feel a welcome to BW is perhaps coming late as you have been around for some time, but feel I must some how mark the advent of your first post, so... welcome to posting

I'm pushed for time right now (must get the LO ready and out for toddler group) and don't want to give a dashed response.  So be reassured I'll come back to your post later on and give it some time OK?

x

[creations]

OK, I've had another read through your post.

I think you are on the right track with your plan to increase the A time, and get up (in increments but as soon as possible) to a 4hr EASY.

Those early morning WUs could well be down to the first A being SO short.  She doesn't feel the need to keep on sleeping as she has learned that a nap will be offered pretty soon after she has woken.
(I know you know the site well, even so I'll give the link)
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.0
At 5 months a 2hr to 2hr 15 A time would be the guidance.
Two of your EASYs show an UT (under tired) first nap of 45mins or so.  Same on nap 2, it's because she isn't really tired enough to sleep longer than one sleep cycle.

I would bring the A up by 10-15 mins every 2-3 days.  This should be slowly enough to allow her body clock to adapt, but you don't want to go too slowly or before you know it she'll be 6 months old and still needing a longer A time and you get stuck playing catch up.  Watch her cues but also watch the clock during this routine change.  She is likely to keep saying she wants that early nap in the morning, just gently extend the A with low key activity, just standing holding/cuddling, quiet chat, looking out the window kind of things.

I would leave BT at 5pm for a little while.  There's a long A time to bed at the moment and I'd suggest getting those other naps more evenly spread out in the day before shifting BT later or you'll end up with an even longer A to bed and possible OT.

I would also suggest tracking your E and S times as two separate things for a while because you might find that one is easier to increase up to the 4 hr EASY than the other there's no need in one holding the other back, if that makes sense.  E does not always have to be on WU from a nap (EASAE is ok).

With regards to getting out and about.  You LO will quite quickly learn if there is a routine to your outings.  I found this to be the best way for us to have a regular routine and play groups, shopping etc.  If you can stick to roughly the same time to go out each day taking everyone's needs into consideration as much as you can (sleep needs, feed needs, socialising needs, shopping needs so on so on) your LO will learn that's the time you go out and will learn if she is going to be offered a nap (in pram/car etc) and for how long.  With DS we stayed home every morning and he got a regular consistent 2hr nap in the cot then we went out after lunch.  He had a short nap (40 min) in the car followed by a shorter than normal A time at a play group, and then another car nap (40 min to an hour.  I used to stay in the car because he would wake and not re-settle if I tried to move him at that age).  It doesn't look like a 'regular' EASY routine but it worked for us.
I doubt your routine would be the same but just give you this example of how you can creatively work around naps.  You also have your DS's needs to take into consideration too of course.

Hope you find some of this helpful.  And I hope I didn't miss any of your questions, but do feel free to ask more or for clarification.
And keep us posted on the progress with that nap routine

[erinjurnove]

Hi Creations,

I thought I left a note here the day you responded thanking you profusely, but looks like it didn't post!  SO sorry about that because your note was so helpful and gave me tons of confidence in proceeding.  I've succeeded in extending Ada's A time so she's sleeping on more of a 4H EASY.  It took a little while because we had a few hitches: she learned to crawl, sit up and pull up to her knees in the space of 3 days AND that meant we lowered her crib and removed her bumper, changing her sleep environment.  We also started solids a few days ago (we're doing Baby Lead Weaning) and she rejected the dream feed (bottle) for a while, but I think that is fixed since we switched to a fast flow nipple. So we had a few days of OT and giving earlier naps/bedtimes.  Now Ada is 6 months old and we have some new challenges.  Hoping you or someone else has some advice!  Here are her current EASY schedules (she usually wakes at either 6am or 7:15-:30am) and my questions follow...

6 am Wakeup EASY
E:   6:00   (wake & nurse)
A:   6:10   
E:   7:00   
A:   7:10   
E:   7:45   
S/Y:   8:10   (1h 35m nap)
E:   10:00   
A:   10:10   
E:   11:10   
S/Y:   12:15   (1h 40m)
E:   2:00   
A:   2:20   
E:   4:30   
S/Y:   5:00   (bedtime)

7:30 am Wakeup EASY
E:   7:30   (wake & nurse)
A:   7:40   
E:   8:45   
S/Y:   9:15   (1h 35m nap)
E:   11:00   
A:   11:10   
E:   12:20   
S/Y:   1:00   (45m nap)
E:   2:00   
A:   2:10   
E:   2:45   
S/Y:   (attempted nap at 3:00 because of short nap #2, but failed   
E:   3:50   
A:   4:00   
E:   4:30   
S/Y:   5:00   (bedtime)


Questions:
- For the last 3 days she's suddenly doing a bunch of early morning wakings and I don't know why they're happening or the right thing to do to get rid of them.  She'll wake at 4, 5, 6am.  I've tried letting her try to work it out, but she doesn't seem able to.  So I've been nursing her in bed & putting her back down.  She'll be quiet for a while then start crying/complaining after ~20 mins. Sometimes she'll snooze while nursing. Any advice for getting rid of these?  It's exhausting and she's OT by mid-morning, getting totally off-routine. Is it connected to her 5pm bedtime?

- She has rejected a 3rd nap for the last week & a half.  Thinking this was a result of a possible catnap drop at 6month, I was going to shift her naps to 10am & 2pm which would hopefully shift her bedtime, but with the early morning wakings, we've been battling OT and I'm feeling trapped.

- We've kept bedtime at 5pm since she's been so ready for it, but a few evenings lately, she's really fussed and taken until 5:30/:45 to fall asleep.  Should we be extending A time before bedtime?

Additional info:
- She is typically waking for a feeding around 7:30/8pm.  I nurse her & put her back down, right back to sleep. Would love to eliminate that as well if possible, but have been thinking it will naturally drop when her bed time shifts later.   

- She's always done a night waking around 1, 2, or 3 am.  I'd be OK with this feeding if she didn't also have those other early morning wakings as well as the early evening waking before her dream feed.

- When she appears to be sleeping past 7am, I wake her and she slips right into 9 & 1 nap times + 5:00 bedtime.  Most days she wakes at 6 am though.  How can I get her to sleep later in the morning so we can have a more regular start to the day?

- I've really focused on fixing Ada's A & S times and unfortunately her E times have gotten wonky.  I've fallen into offering her a nursing before & after each nap for fear that she'll wake early because she's hungry and she "asks" to nurse upon waking, if you know what I mean.  I'd like to get feadings more on a 4 hour EASY as well, but don't know where to start and wonder if I should wait til her sleep is settled down properly before futsing with this since it seems like it will be such a big change.

- She is offered solids 1-3 times a days at breakfast/lunch/afternoon snack times.  Sometimes she goes to town and seems to get quite a bit down. Other times, she works hard, but nothing much stays in her mouth and it's a time for exploring more than anything.

Thank you so much for any help or advice at all that anyone can think of!

Hanging in there & already enjoying more time out in the world with both kids despite these latest hiccups,
Erin

[creations]

Hi there Erin
hey well done with surviving all those developmental leaps!  Wow, a lot ot happen in a short time eh?

Ok lets see if I can help a little with your questions.

Early morning wake ups.  I had these for 12 months with DS so I totally understand how it feels at 5am or 5.30am!  He would never re-settle so we had to get up for the day.  Some LOs just are very early risers. However as this is a new thing for you I would think that you can get back to a more regular 7am WU if that is what she was doing prior to the last few days.  A few things come to mind
- starting solids often disturbs sleep.  I had NWs and night feeds with DS when we started BLW and he hadn't had a night feed for months by then (but still had a DF).  Solids do not sustain through the night in the same way milk does.  For good night sleep I recommend a good milk intake prior to bed.  Also though solids is another new development for your LO and as a result she will be processing all that new info in her dreams and that too can disturb sleep.
- the first nap is coming too soon.  I'd suggest pushing the first A up to 2hr 30 (possibly more).  If a morning nap comes too early LO knows the routine and knows she will get another sleep.
- BT is too early.  She's actually doing a 13 - 14.5hr night which is huge.  I know I suggested last time to stick with the 5pm BT for a little while so that you don't have a monster A to BT but I think the message she is telling you is that it's time it was shifted to 7.00/7.30pm.  Try to aim for 12 hr day and 12 hr night.
- if WU is more regularly at one particular time you could try W2S
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=223809.0
but to be honest it's quite a lot to expect her to sleep that long at night.

I understand how you feel trapped with the OT due to early waking and night disturbances but I really do advise pushing those A times.  The A times she's on won't get her to a decent BT without a CN and you're getting stuck with this early BT.  If you give a reasonable A time, increasing with respect (15 mins each time) she'll adapt but it's not going to change on it's own you'll have to push it.  If it was me I'd brace myself for a few difficult days and if possible call in some back up for the A time.  I find back up (a friend or family member) is able to cope with some play time with LO whilst I have a lie down or just a cup of tea in another room, just get a bit of Y.  Then I'm ready to face the hard work of dealing with the difficult bits, the last push of A to extend it, the put down for the nap or bed, the night wakes etc.

How about this as an idea:
- push A times up to 2.5hrs
- introduce a CN at 4.30 - this will feel to her like an early bed time but you will time it and observe her closely as she sleeps and when she stirs at the 40 to 45 min mark you will wake her gently and go for some low key A time, then you will feed at around 7pm and have her in bed for night sleep by 7.30pm.  You might do her normal wind down routine cuing BT the first night if you like but by day 2 or 3 let her nap in her day clothes and when she wakes from the CN (around 5.15) there will be enough time for a solids snack, a little A, bath and BT wind down including milk.  This milk feed removes the first night waking for that feed (it will be slightly earlier than she is used to but I would imagine she will adapt quite well to it).  After another few days you might want to bring the CN a little earlier so that she wakes at 5pm and has a solids meal at 5.15pm.  I found if DS ate after this time his night would be disturbed with digesting the solids, it also leaves a longer time between solids and BT milk so she has a good milk feed.
Your day might look something like this:
WU 6
A 2.5hr
S 8.30 - 10.00
A 2.5hr
S 12.30 - 2.00
A 2.5hr
CN 4.30 - 5.00/5.15
A 2hr - 2.5hr
BT 7.00/7.30

What do you think?
If she wakes earlier than 6am shift the times accordingly.  The times I have given there are a 11hr night and a 13 hr day, depending how things go you might get closer to 12 and 12 but it's impossible to know exactly how she'll respond.

The E times.
Again I can only suggest you push it.  Whenever I have feared a change in routine I've always found it to be easier than I thought it was going to be.  She really shouldn't need that milk before a nap, 4hrs between milk and she is also getting some additional calories with the solids so I really don't think the extra milk feed is necessary.  Do make sure you offer water with solids meals though or she will want to nurse to quench her thirst.
I personally wouldn't wait for the sleep to be sorted, I would just go to 4hrly milks now.
6/7, 10/11, 2/3, 6/7
At this age the EASY routine works really well on 4hrly milk feeds with naps ending just at the right time for a feed.  In another few months you have to get a bit more creative about fitting milk, solids and naps together.

I don't think she's quite ready to drop the CN yet.  But it will be coming soon, just as soon as those A times stretch out, she needs to be able to cope with 3hrs to drop the CN comfortably.
A link on dropping the CN which may help:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64837.0

hope this helps some.  xx

[erinjurnove]

Thank you so much!  Oh, my goodness, this is so helpful. 

I've been trying to get her to take a CN for a week or so with no success and I was really unsure of how to fix that. I thought she was ready to drop the CN because I just couldn't figure out how to keep that last A time reasonable without shifting both naps.  Your suggestion is so simple and genius! Makes sense that it will help with a later BT (which I want) and get rid of those pesky early morning wakings (they started at 3:30 am today every 1.5-2 hours...WU was 5:30 today...ugh, so exhausted). Fingers crossed that she'll settle into a 12h night and start waking around the same time every day. Wow, that would change my life!  Even if it was always at 6/6:30, I can deal with that.

Thanks for the note about your son and BLW/solids after 5:15 interrupting night time sleep with digestion. Good to know. Especially since I assume digesting solids via BLW is more demanding than digesting solids via 100% purees.

I like the sample schedule you suggested.  I'm aiming for that, shifting the day according to her morning WU time.

So here's my plan based on your recommendations (pretty much taking all of them!):

- Pushing 1st A time to 2h30m.  It's at 1h45m now & I'll do it in 15 min increments every 3 days.
- Introduce a CN at 4:30pm in place of the early BT. Watch & wake her at 45 min as she naturally stirs.
- Aim for a 7/7:30 BT.
- I'll be sure to space the last milk intake of the day before BT well after a solid snack/previous nursing to be sure it's a good hearty one and she's really "topped off." I would love for her to be able to last until the DF without waking.
- I'll drop feedings (starting with the 2nd E before 1st nap) to get us to the 4H EASY schedule.  Since her solids intake is still variable based on BLW (started about a week ago), nursing is her main source of food. To avoid screwing up my supply or getting mastitis/clogged ducts I'll drop 1 feed every 2-3 days or so.  Otherwise I'd be dropping 4-5 feedings all at once. I changed my nursing routine drastically with my older DS when he was a baby and it was mayhem, LOL, so I'm concerned about not making that mistake this time.

Did I cover everything?

Couple more questions:
- When introducing the CN, should I go straight to keeping her up after it for her last A time of 2.5 hours or should I gradually extend it the same way I'm doing the 1st A time of the day (e.g. start with 6pm bedtime & extend it 15-20 mins every 3 days)? Thinking I should just go for it.

- She's been doing a 12:30 NW for nursing for the last week or so.  She started it when she rejected the DF bottle. We thought it would go away when she started taking the DF again (about 3 nights ago), but she's still doing it.  DH gives the DF at 10pm and she's sleeping through the entire thing now (yippee!).  Any insight on this?  Is she OT? Is this a growth spurt that I'm overlooking?  I'm thinking of waiting 10 mins or so every couple of nights before going to get her at that midnight waking (tonight do 12:45, in three days do 1am, etc) to extend her tummy's clock until it runs into the next NW/feeding around 1, 2, or 3am.

- Unfortunately, she came down with her first cold this afternoon and she's kind of a mess.  I'm thinking of just letting her sleep when she wants and dealing with whatever until a day or two from now when she's not battling a fever and clogged nose on top of sleep shifts.  Any suggestions to the contrary or in addition? It's hard to tell whether the tiredness is coming from her cold or the sleep shaping.  My gut tells me it's the cold since she is also sluggish and weepy, poor girl.

- When she is over this cold (hopefully in only a day or two) and I put our plan in action, how long do you think it can take for her to adjust to the new CN/BT routine? Any idea how long I should watch to determine whether it's helped the multiple early morning wakings and if not, try something else?

Thank you so much -- again! I'm feeling optimistic.  My parents are taking my 3.5yo DS for a week, so that will give me a big break dealing with Ada and those tough times you mentioned. My husband will be working from home and has a light schedule this week, so he'll be able to give me some breaks for Y time periodically.

-Erin

[creations]

Hi there Erin
Forgive me as I need to be brief tonight but wanted to reply so you don't feel lost with implementing the plan.

- When introducing the CN, should I go straight to keeping her up after it for her last A time of 2.5 hours or should I gradually extend it the same way I'm doing the 1st A time of the day (e.g. start with 6pm bedtime & extend it 15-20 mins every 3 days)? Thinking I should just go for it.

I can only say see how she is.  She is used to the new CN being her night sleep so you might have trouble keeping her awake and/or happy.  Don't overstimulate in an attempt to keep her awake as it could make her really upset.  You might need to let her take an EBT like you say at 6pm or she might handle it well.

She's been doing a 12:30 NW for nursing for the last week or so

Sounds like habit.  You could shush/pat through it or use W2S to trigger a new sleep cycle to break the habit.

I'm thinking of waiting 10 mins or so every couple of nights

I wouldn't.  If she is crying then you should go to her immediately.  If she is fussing looking for the milk I'd shush/pat.

Unfortunately, she came down with her first cold this afternoon and she's kind of a mess.

I would do lots of cuddles and sleep when ever she wants until she is well.  You can keep an eye on routine but don't schedule her through a cold and I agree that waiting a few days before implementing the plan would be a good idea.  Poor thing!  Elevating the cot at the head end can help with congestion, using a cot safe wedge or proper cot blocks.

- When she is over this cold (hopefully in only a day or two) and I put our plan in action, how long do you think it can take for her to adjust to the new CN/BT routine? Any idea how long I should watch to determine whether it's helped the multiple early morning wakings and if not, try something else?

New habits usually happen quicker than we expect, say 3 days, however it will take more than 3 days to push the A times for all naps so your full plan won't be complete within 3 days (hope that makes sense).  Once she's on the new routine solidly a week then I'd look again at NW, EW or other difficulties.  Best advice is to have low expectations and recognise the improvements at each stage.

Good luck with it.  And let us know how it goes.
xx